The VIT/STR debate for Paladin

[Exoduso]

How are people dealing with this?
I just hit 50 and since I wasn't sure which way to go, I went 15/15 on the bonus points. Main issue is that with more STR your Flash is stronger, and you do more damage so you get more enmity. The offset is that you lose out on HP, and the PLD HP is lower than the WAR HP to begin with, so I kind of want VIT as well.

Point being, how are other PLDs going? Also, what are you doing for gear in terms of the jewelry? Do you go all VIT? All STR to compensate for a full VIT point build? Or sort of half and half.

Edit: guess I should have posted in Theorycrafting if anyone minds moving it.

[solidgryffin]

i have only seen one person do any end game stuff concerning str/vit for pld and war. he is still working on his numbers.
i cannot paste his url, but search valk and dancing mad and you will get to his web page.

[solipsism]

It really depends on the rate at which STR affects block and parry mitigation. According to valk's numbers block and parry gains from strength are tiered. "Having 270 STR, 200 Shield Block will reduce the same amount of damage as someone having 336 STR, 200 Shield Block. A person having 337 STR, 200 Shield Block will reduce 1% more damage." If his numbers are right it doesn't seem worth it at those rates. I am not 50 yet but enmity hasn't been a problem so far but maybe it is later. Im going all VIT until I see data showing DEX/STR to be superior or if I hit some sort of cap. It's not that big of a deal to reset stat points either if you really want to min/max

[Amastacia]

Quite frankly, unless something changes with the tiering, I can't see any good reason not to just dump the points in to VIT unless you're completely BiS and are able to bump a tier with some STR allocation.

VIT always provides a bigger HP buffer and boosts health regen without any wonky tiering. Not that it's really a big deal, but upgrading gear when not BiS will throw off the allocation and waste bonus points. Plus, with HM primals being a non-trivial part of current endgame, a bit of extra HP buffer for "Astral Flow" is not a bad thing.

Regardless, it's pretty damn minor for PLD however you swing it. The class just has such high passive mitigation and such a high uptime of useful CDs that the impact of the bonus pool is just not very noticeable. I think just about every death I've taken to this point has been the direct result of bad play by a healer or a mechanics mistake on my part.

[Invictus]

I really really really want to believe in dumping points into STR because it seems like the logical choice, but I haven't seen enough of a difference with Parry strength. I need a parser that actually lets me know how much I parried/blocked, because i'm seeing like 18% mitigation with the small shields compared to 22% with Larger shields and about 20 with the Kit shields.

I'll get my STR / VIT stats when I get home and (lol) log in tonight. I have AF and a few DL Acc pieces so it's nothing special.

Edit
If my Block is procing like 25% of the time or more, I'll be excited. I still have a belief that we somehow need to gear for DEX, so when I finally level Armorer, I'm going to Quad Meld DEX to Heavy Gear to see if that helps because at (i think) 201 DEX, I can't say I'm parrying that often.

[Elec]

Okay, I understand that STR seems to be trending as the better option, but should we max STR or do a ratio of 2 STR to 1 VIT? What creates the overall most rounded Paladin?

[Arew]

I'm currently doing a 2:1 ratio of VIT/STR, and although I'm only 30, I've been liking it so far.

[sleepness]

At 50, I only put around 10 of my bonus points into strength. Is there any way to even refund at this point?

[solidgryffin]

At 50, I only put around 10 of my bonus points into strength. Is there any way to even refund at this point?

Buy an item from the gc for 10k seals.

[Raldo]

Buy an item from the gc for 10k seals.

To elaborate on this, it's in the "Materiels" section under the first rank set.

[Abunai]

I have been pondering this question for a while now. I like the STR boost to block power ( if confirmed true ) but VIT is a a PLD true strength. I'm 31 Glad/PLD at the moment and so far dumped all to STR. Think from here up though I'll be dumping in VIT.

[Raldo]

I have been pondering this question for a while now. I like the STR boost to block power ( if confirmed true ) but VIT is a a PLD true strength. I'm 31 Glad/PLD at the moment and so far dumped all to STR. Think from here up though I'll be dumping in VIT.

Strictly speaking about block power, if you put all your points into STR, you might increase your blocks to avoid a whopping 1% extra damage (e.g. Blocking 22% damage instead of 21%), assuming it works the same as parry.

[Egon]

I'm 40 WAR, dumping 75% into VIT, anyone have a better idea?

[djzombie]

I've just been dumping it all into vitality, haven't had any problems with threat really. I'm doing that for reasons already mentioned above, just because there is no tiering of vitality for stat gains.

[Prothescar]

With the recent findings regarding block rate/strength, I don't think there's much to argue about anymore. STR for PLD is pretty much useless unless you're doing it for DPS reasons, which... well, yeah.

[biglarsen]

I don't really see how there can even be a debate. 30 vit adds almost 10% total HP, which is fucking immense, whereas 30 str gives approximately nothing. You gain about 1% more damage, and if you're lucky enough to hit the next block breakpoint (which is unlikely), you also get to block 1% more damage -- but only from mobs' auto-attacks, which is literally the least dangerous thing in the game. How can anybody wonder what's better? Did people suddenly become retarded and erase a decade's worth of MMORPG tanking knowledge? Vit would be better even if it gave half the HP it currently does. In two months people will be embarrassed to ever have considered taking strength on a tank.

[Invictus]

In two months people will be embarrassed to ever have considered taking strength on a tank.

Made me laugh, but I agree. I saw a video of a DL / Relic (not sure if +1 or not) PLD fighting the snake in the Coil mitigating 25% damage from blocks and bout 23% from Parry. Yeah, i'm respecing from STR cause it's a waste. I have DD for that.

[Carth]

Now that I've played PLD extensively, every tank (not just PLD, but WAR as well) should be going VIT, no questions asked. STR makes more sense on WAR, but they should also be going the VIT route. The boosts you get from STR is so small that it doesn't make much of a difference.

I wouldn't and never have factored the negligible shit like Block Rate. That 1% boost hasn't nor will it ever be a make or break. DPS doesn't mean anything since you'll be sitting on Shield Oath/Defiance for the majority of your endgame work. The only real advantage to having full STR is stronger threat, which really only means you can afford to be a bit more liberal with your Halone Combo (I guess so you can Shield Swipe more), but as a whole the boost is unnecessary due to enmity modifiers and Shield Oath/Defiance, which means threat generation is already in vast favor of the tanks.

I leveled up as a 30 STR PLD, then recently respecced as a 30 VIT PLD, and I've already seen the 30VIT put to work. During Endgame you take a lot of spike damage, so having a strong HP pool is actually pretty important.

[reccaa]

DISCLAIMER: this is my humble opinion as a person playing a dedicated tank role, with limited PLD experience but mostly on WAR.

I find it interesting that when people discuss STR vs. VIT on tanks, they always refer to parry/block, and forget something really important; i.e. hate.
For that reason, I have been doing 3:1 ration on STR to VIT (strictly speaking WAR tank, I haven't had my PLD high enough, but I'd go at least 2:2 ratio on PLD)

Let's examine this logically, and allow me to lay out the simple method I'm using to find the "sweet spot" that at the end of the day reflects my style (I don't believe in a perfect setup; players are not created equal).

IMHO, tank job in a simple priority order is to: keep hate > Do proper positioning for monsters > maximize survival/Stun > damage.
Arguing the priority order is beside the point, but keeping hate is definitely important!
1) It'll set the maximum damage sealing the raid can do in a fight
2) Ensure a smooth fight by keeping the hate on a single player.

I'm mostly on WAR, and what I'm trying to do is figure out the comfortable requirement of STR to maximize my hate, and then throw remaining points in VIT.
The method I'm using is rather simple; at end game, when I see that #2 on hate list never goes beyond 25% on average (i.e. I can sustain that state, even having the best DD in raid), that is when I'll throw remaining points in VIT.

Therefore, Data on STR & VIT are simply arbitrary! It is pointless because tanking is heavily situational. Even if you have the best VIT setup which maximizes survival (for reasons beyond me, why else have 2 healers...), what is the point of your capability as a tank to generate enmity and keep hate is severely limited? This will only render DD useless and hinder the fight.

On the other side, if you examine WAR/PLD/GLA/MRD gear, it has both VIT & STR, which slight bias towards VIT post Lvl 40+.
Hate formula is heavily damage-dependent.
Arguing that a tank gets enough STR from gear is basically flawed; the same thing could be said about VIT.
If you add to the fact that at end-game the points you can assign will only make marginal differences; having 300 extra HP won't save you.
So really... you need both balance it depending on your style & preference!

what matters MOST is the tank skills, for example:
1- Playing combos perfectly, at the right time & when needed
2- Correct invocation of survival spells (e.g. triggering foresight at the beginning of the fight is pointless, unless you are doing a major pull with many adds)

[CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon]

Vit all the way. PLD has a totally(and better imo) different mechanic than war. 300 hp doesn't sound like much on other classes but it's huge on PLD. That's like a tic of regen, or greater hp regeneration over time due to higher hp pool. I see no reason to put str first ever on pld, only as a secondary stat where you simply cannot add vit.