The VIT/STR debate for Paladin

[Churchill]

Probably, most people discussing tanking have no idea what they're talking about and understand DPS even less.

[Ferien]

Block and Parry Rates
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/a...BlockRates.png

Which Round and Kite shields were used for this? Confused by the Kite having a higher Block% than Round but it could easily just be the specific shields used for testing since they don't work like XI's did.

[Jahaudant]

Which Round and Kite shields were used for this? Confused by the Kite having a higher Block% than Round but it could easily just be the specific shields used for testing since they don't work like XI's did.

Good question, one I don't know the answer to since I didn't do this testing my self.

I assumed Kite Shield referred to the level 48 white crafted Kite Shield and I used this as the basis for aproximating the block rate of Holy Shield +1. Even if the block rate numbers are off the actual difference between the effectiveness STR and VIT from a survivability (EHP) standpoint is so large that it wouldn't make a difference (See my previous point regarding having a 100% block rate).

Information source: http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=179/#BnP

[Tobberoth]

I think a lot of tanks have the wrong idea when it comes to their decision. Going "I don't die, so it's fine to bump by damage" is the wrong way of going about it, because you're forgetting the number 1 reason you're surviving: Your healer.

By all means, if you have a healer friend who you play with and he specifically says your HP is fine, you can go STR if you want. But if he is more comfortable with you getting more HP so he can be more mana efficient, gets enough time to pull off long casts etc, there's no question about it: You go HP.

You help your party FAR more by giving your healer margin of error than to do a bit more damage to the boss with a massive HP pool, unless you have problems holding aggro... and if you do, STR is not the issue.

[Argantes]

Neither is a requirement.
One makes it easier to be able to take more damage, while the other makes it easier to get/keep hate.
I said, makes it easier, so again, not a requirement.

Apart from tonberry King with too many stacks, nothing in the game that's supposed to hit you will really one shot you (I haven't gone past Garuda HM yet, so correct me if I'm wrong)
So HP is nice to have, but not a requirement.

STR, makes it somewhat easier to keep hate (It's just how it felt to me, I didn't actually parse it or anything so again, correct me if I'm wrong)
Which means dps and healers can go balls a bit more and if for some reason you lose hate, (which you really shouldn't) it's easier to get back.
Again, not a requirement, just makes it easier to do so.

I'm just basing this off going full str and keeping hate off other (better geared) tanks by just hitting 1, 2, 3.
While now that I'm vit, it's really 50/50 unless there is a distinct gear difference.

At this point in the game I really feel like it doesn't really matter which way you go.

I'm just using the "not a requirement" a lot because a lot of people here seem to think that once you use str for hate, it's because you can't keep hate otherwise.

[Bran Llywd]

Definitely go all out VIT

[Helm]

Assuming your equipment is up-to-date I see no compelling reason to go full vit in any current content.

[Jahaudant]

Assuming your equipment is up-to-date I see no compelling reason to go full vit in any current content.

You propose a compelling argument.

One makes it easier to be able to take more damage, while the other makes it easier to get/keep hate.
I said, makes it easier, so again, not a requirement.

Honestly this is such a silly perspective to take. I assume you are applying the same thinking to your equipment, and running full DPS spec?

Once you reach a point where you can hold single target threat against absolutely anything, period, you no longer have to worry about increasing the amount of enmity you can gain. You reach this point pretty much the second you get Rage of Halone. With enmity now a non-issue you need to start considering how to maximise your survivability. You are a tank, after all.

[Churchill]

Assuming your equipment is up-to-date I see no compelling reason to go full vit in any current content.

Turn 5 complete?

[Argantes]

I assume you are applying the same thinking to your equipment, and running full DPS spec?

You assume too much

[tachikoma]

Its sad to me that this is where the BG forums of old have headed. People debating STR/VIT like its even a topic to consider.

But then again maybe you only run AK and CM and have no interest in coil. I could respect a STR build for trash dungeon but thats about it.

[Churchill]

did you see the BG gilgamesh thread. this is tame.

[FHT]

Full STR all the way. Not a single fight in the game yet does enough damage to warrant needing the extra HP while any extra threat generation is extremely welcomed. I've never been one shot, never even really been close to being two shot yet even up to coil turn 4. Maybe turn 5 will be different but who knows.

As a WAR i'd agree with that 200%

Its sad to me that this is where the BG forums of old have headed. People debating STR/VIT like its even a topic to consider.

But then again maybe you only run AK and CM and have no interest in coil. I could respect a STR build for trash dungeon but thats about it.

As Irelevant as it seems, its a very relevant thread, its just too bad the point of view of everyone is bias

There are so many thing to take into account, VIT is one thing in the list.

1) HP, as a PLD without Defiance I can understand the debate, I wont coment on that as my PLD is Lv32 only.
- But for WAR I can tell you one thing, this is just wrong to go full VIT, to follow the crew like a sheep wont get you anywhere either.

2) What make the DDs DDs? STR play a role, but there are 2 other things that will play a massive role too, its Determination & Vivacity (Just look at DL rings/earrings).
As A WAR and as a PLD you need to have Vivacity at a decent Level, it will allow you to spam more often your combos to keep hate from the DDs, don't ask me maths because I did not do any on paper, I just tested it in game (in CM) with a WAR friend of mine, we both play exactly the same way, each of us swaped for "decent" gearsets one including full VIT, as everyone is arguing, the other is a mix of STR & Vivacity.

Believe it or not, the STR & Vivacity set allowed us to claim back the hate very easily and more efficiently, and its where Eanae's comment make sense, because you wont get one-shoted anywhere in the current game.

One other thing to ask is, is 300HP really worth it? To give a rest to the healer? (I saw this one as an argument somewhere in this thread) I am not sure about it. One good thing to use for that purpose would be Rage > Inner Beast (from a WAR pov.) And I think the Armor T2-T1 provide enough buff for that matter.

[Karbuncle]

Silly Question. Do points you spend on one job carry over to other jobs? I was under the impression they do.

[Carth]

Unless it's Summoner/Scholar, they do not.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Every class has their own separate 30 points. It's only an issue right now for SMN and SCH because it's 2 jobs, 1 class.

[Karbuncle]

Hm, I could have sworn I put Points into VIT on my GLA and saw them improve my points on SMN. Guess i imagined it. Sad to hear.

Edit: Perhaps it was Points on my THM/CNJ which carried over to SMN, Which makes sense... Mystery solved.

[Charismatic]

Edit: Perhaps it was Points on my THM/CNJ which carried over to SMN, Which makes sense... Mystery solved.

No it doesn't.

THM CNJ and ACN are all separate classes, their allocation has NOTHING to do with each other.
This is the wrong thread for this but what you are saying doesn't make any sense within the rules of the game.

[gaogaostegosaurus]

Vivacity?

[FHT]

Vivacity?

The stat that reduce the CD for fighting class, I don't know how its called in english tho.