Pugilist/monk discussion

[Kawfee]

I'd like reaffirmation it's worth it for the content that I'd be facing when compared with other alternatives. Just hit 50, and I'm still on the Cape Westwind mission.
Currently using full MNK AF, HQ Wilding Cesti, and various HQ/dungeon accessories. Seems kinda difficult to research gear options in this game

This was posted earlier in the thread, I think you'll find it a helpful resource (spreadsheet showing the DPS upgrades of most possible endgame items by slot):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...YanFxY0E#gid=1

Once you finish the storyline (e.g. clear Praetorium), I'd recommend farming CM (Castrum Meridanum) a bit first to get some DL pieces. It's easy to hide in speedruns with subpar gear, there. Praetorium you can also run for tokens for DL, both give 100, but people can be a bit more selective in who they invite to PR speedruns. Can mix in WP (Wanderer's Palace) early too, the gear upgrades are minor over AF, the weapons are decent (but about the same as HQ crafted ilvl55), however it only gives 50 tokens vs. 100 from the other two. Once you get a few pieces of DL I'd recommend spamming AK (Amdapor Keep), which gives 80 DL tokens, 40 Mytho tokens (AF+1/relic+1) which you can only acquire 300/week, and the drops are big upgrades from AF (not quite as good as DL, though). Once you are AK-geared or DL in every slot, you're about ready for Titan. Ifrit HM is super easy, could probably be done in AF. Garuda HM is a little trickier, becomes much much easier with gear and DPS.

For Titan, I'd recommend having >3300 HP as that is my best guess for a safepoint in surviving a random miss-step + some AOE damage. Titan is more about dodging and surviving than it is about DPS.

Rata, if you (or anyone else on Hyperion) needs help with Titan, I'd be happy to tag along, just beat him myself earlier in the week.

edit: How do you all get your FFXIV character to display under your name? Can't find it in settings/profile...

[Pyros Eien]

After getting my HQ Pants and wasting millions on materia melding only to get the allagan pants 3 days after it, F Gryphonskin, used the philosophy tomestones I got to get my BLM her relic and Darklight instead ,I'll save the gil to buy a house when housing is implemented.

If you're doing Coil and have other jobs, don't waste your money on that unless your pockets are brimming with gil.

Well you don't have to waste millions on materias. I just crafted some gryphon, saves me a ton of CM runs to get darklight for acceptable gear level for coil, and all I have to do is put 2 good materias in the 100% slots, a II in the first overmeld then a bunch of Is. A piece costs like 300k to craft atm, plus about 50-70k worth of materias. Beats running CM(which I have to do for jewlery anyway so the less I have to the better).

[Almalexia]

This was posted earlier in the thread, I think you'll find it a helpful resource (spreadsheet showing the DPS upgrades of most possible endgame items by slot):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...YanFxY0E#gid=1

Interesting. But how is skill speed weighted?

[ZarakiKujata]

I've gotten pretty decent at:

a) avoiding damage

and

b) dealing damage

but still kind of suck at

c) doing both at the same time consistently.

In an effort to alleviate this, I went out and bought a Razer Naga. It's a bit tough getting used to it, as I only really ever used the keyboard for MMOs up until today.

What I need is some ideas on hotbar layouts that will work well with a MMO mouse for MNK, if anyone wants to share. Best I can come up with is using 1~6 for the main damage abilities, and CTRL/Shift 1~6 for lesser used stuff (but I'm finding that to be sloppy and uncomfortable)... stuff like Fists of Fire/Earth, Items and Limit Breaks, I just throw at the end since they're seldom used compared to stuff like ToD/Bootshine, etc...

EDIT: An idea I might play with is instead of going 1: Bootshine, 2: Twin Snakes, 3: Demolish (new line), 4: Bootshine, 5: True Strike, 6: Snap Punch .... maybe switching to 1/4/7/10 > 2/5/8/11 to be something similar to ToD/Bootshine/TwinSnakes/Demolish > Fracture/Bootshine/TrueStrike/SnapPunch with 3/6/9/12 being something like Haymaker/SteelPeak/SecondWind/Featherfoot (or whatever, maybe just click the hotbars for buffs and keep the mouse buttons all offensive)...

Granted PLD is my main and I only hit 50 MNK yesterday, but on my G600 for MNK I've set

First Row (Dragon Kick/Bootshine/Arm of the Destroyer)
Second Row (One Ilm Punch/True Strike/Twin Snakes)
Third Row (Snap Punch/Demolish/Rock Breaker)
Fourth Row (Howling Fists/Steel Peak/Haymaker)

then the g-shift for the alternate use for each button I've set the various off GCD buffs/cross class abilities and Touch of Death.

[Tsutsumiko]

I use a Razer Naga Epic to play MNK and it makes my life infinitely easier. I'm not sure what the difference between the regular Naga is vs. the Epic but my mapping is as such:

Regular
1. Bootshine 2. Twin Snakes 3. Snap Punch 4. Dragon Kick 5. True Strike 6. Demolish 7. Arm of the Destroyer 8. One Ilm Punch 9. Rockbreaker 10. Howling Fist 11. Touch of Death 12. Fracture

Control
1. Haymaker 2. Steel Peak 3. Blood for Blood 4. Bloodbath 5. Internal Release 6. Featherfoot 7. Invigorate 8. Internal Release 9. Mercy Stroke 10. Mantra 11. Second Wind 12. Shoulder Tackle

I keep all 3 fists + sprint as click only moves on line 3 and I just click if needed. In the event that you can't mouse it and need to run, Shift + 3, 3 will force a Sprint, Shift + 3, 1 will give Fists of Earth. You get the idea.

My control setup is a mess but the beauty of my normal setup is that moves are organized so that the left most column on the mouse buttons is all Opo Stance, the middle is only Raptor, and the right is only Coeurl. As long as you're progressing from left to right, you can't possibly mess up. My bottom row (10~12) is setup so that Fracture is in the same row as Demolish since that's when I'm likely to use it. The only thing I still toss and turn with is the location of Touch of Death not being on 10 since I usually open with it which makes it feel more natural on 10 than 11.

If your mouse only has 6 buttons (which is what you're seeming to imply), try to find a similar setup with moves (Map your Opo moves to 1 and CTRL 1 for example). You can probably cut out Arm/One Ilm/Rockbreaker as they're very situational but I like having all my tools accessible to me so that's why I use them.

Point is to force overlap or make a pattern with your controls so you're not fumbling around and just practice with it. It took me a few days to get my system down but it is way worth it. I consistently do the most DPS in my group and don't get hit.

[Icarian]

Is True Strike worth using? I never use it, mainly due the fact that on many bosses you either 1) barely have any time to stand at the back of the boss (ie caduceus) so I do bootshine and return to the flank or 2) many bosses have adds and/or you have to move, securing Twin Snakes buff to be always up so it doesn't wear off while moving or w/e seems more important than the minimal gain True Strike gives over Twin Snakes.

All in all True Strike seems to be very situational, you can use it during a fight where the mob doesn't do any back attack (or alternate it with bootshine, so you only have to be at the back for a single skill, but then again you'd be moving back and forth all the time which seems to be a hassle and can fuck up your combos) or encounters where you don't have to move much/there aren't many adds.

[Kawfee]

Is True Strike worth using? I never use it, mainly due the fact that on many bosses you either 1) barely have any time to stand at the back of the boss (ie caduceus) so I do bootshine and return to the flank or 2) many bosses have adds and/or you have to move, securing Twin Snakes buff to be always up so it doesn't wear off while moving or w/e seems more important than the minimal gain True Strike gives over Twin Snakes.

All in all True Strike seems to be very situational, you can use it during a fight where the mob doesn't do any back attack (or alternate it with bootshine, so you only have to be at the back for a single skill, but then again you'd be moving back and forth all the time which seems to be a hassle and can fuck up your combos) or encounters where you don't have to move much/there aren't many adds.

I think you just answered your own question.

[Elcura]

Is True Strike worth using? I never use it, mainly due the fact that on many bosses you either 1) barely have any time to stand at the back of the boss (ie caduceus)

I do all of coil on MNK and this just isn't true. I can spend most of my time on his ass and only have to dodge that rear WS (which is good because he doesn't attack tank while doing it). For ADS and the rest of coil it's possible and not at all dangerous to be in the right position. ADS is the most risky if your tanks are literally on opposite sides (they shouldn't be if you have melee) but otherwise only bosses that turn around to attack the party a lot are annoying for melee DPS.

True Strike is worth using when your skill speed is high enough, otherwise you're better off keeping the Twin Snakes buff up. If you have around 6-7 seconds on your buff when you reach Raptor form though, you should definitely True Strike because you can easily reach Raptor again by the time it wears off. True Strike is also less TP which at higher levels is crucial because you will dip very low if you aren't careful.

[Icarian]

I do all of coil on MNK and this just isn't true. I can spend most of my time on his ass and only have to dodge that rear WS (which is good because he doesn't attack tank while doing it).

I spend most of my time on the flank during Caduceus for obvious reasons (Dragon kick/Twin Snakes/Snap Punch), He does his tail swipe every 20ish seconds or so, so many times when I go on his back to do bootshine I can't stand there to do a True strike after a Bootshine or I'll get hit by it, and I'm not gonna get away, wait, and go back to his back to do True Strike when I can keep comboing on his flank, I'm sure I can't do Bootshine>True Strike and have time to dodge his tail WS with 341 skill speed, at least not safely, the other option would be alternate Bootshine and True Strike so I only have to do a single back WS each time instead of two but that seems kind of overcomplicating things a bit with all the back and forth dance that it would suppose for (what I think is, correct if I'm wrong) a minimal DPS gain.

[Kawfee]

I do basically what you are describing: go behind mobs every other rotation to do Bootshine>True Strike; but, when the mob has some sort of spike flail, I'll usually only be able to bootshine then have to go back to flank and use Twin Snakes instead (e.g. AK last boss). Agreed, the time spent moving is probably not worth the incremental dps in that situation to try and move back or "wait" mid rotation, just carry on.

[Elcura]

I spend most of my time on the flank during Caduceus for obvious reasons (Dragon kick/Twin Snakes/Snap Punch), He does his tail swipe every 20ish seconds or so, so many times when I go on his back to do bootshine I can't stand there to do a True strike after a Bootshine or I'll get hit by it, and I'm not gonna get away, wait, and go back to his back to do True Strike when I can keep comboing on his flank, I'm sure I can't do Bootshine>True Strike and have time to dodge his tail WS with 341 skill speed, at least not safely, the other option would be alternate Bootshine and True Strike so I only have to do a single back WS each time instead of two but that seems kind of overcomplicating things a bit with all the back and forth dance that it would suppose for (what I think is, correct if I'm wrong) a minimal DPS gain.

...What? If you aren't where you're supposed to be for increased damage, then you aren't dealing as much as the DPS who are. It's not it's that much more effort, you go to where you need to go unless you need to dodge something.

This isn't a problem so much for me, since I pop behind the boss to trigger his WS even when I'm on the flank rotation. Demolish also helps with that portion since you can be anywhere.

[Ggrab]

I tho we establish that flank was highest dps

[Elcura]

I tho we establish that flank was highest dps

It isn't. Well, being on flank is better than rear. Doing both is better than anything else though unless you get crits on every single DK. True Strike is just overall stronger (though if you don't care about crit (and you should) then you can do it anywhere) and there's no reason not to use it unless you're low on TwS buff. There's also TP costs to consider, and True Strike is more damage for less TP.

I mean, you could stick on flank like a pussy or you could man up and move your ass. Your choice. I know which one I'll be doing.

[Fievel]

I mean, you could stick on flank like a pussy or you could man up and move your ass. Your choice. I know which one I'll be doing.

lol

[Niiro]

As far as Caduceus is concerned, melee should be on that ass by default.

The amount of potential damage it saves the tank/healers from having to deal with is enormous.

[Icarian]

...What? If you aren't where you're supposed to be for increased damage, then you aren't dealing as much as the DPS who are.

That's obvious, and that's why I'm asking how much DPS I'm missing by not doing True Strike all the time compared to doing Twin Snakes securing the buff and what are the experiences of other MNKs in Coil with it.

It's not it's that much more effort, you go to where you need to go unless you need to dodge something.

And that something is the tail WS that several bosses have (not just in Coil, Chimera, Hydra and Anantaboga to name the most common), it's not like you can stand at the rear and do your thing without any worries, doing a single WS like Bootshine is perfectly fine, doing two is not in many cases, since I haven't really tried to fit True Strike in my rotation and parse it, I can't really tell if it's worth it or not, hence my post.

From my experience, Demolish oftentimes lines up with Bootshine, using Demolish to trigger a rear WS means your next WS is not going to be Bootshine, and using Bootshine to trigger a rear WS means your next WS is not going to be True Strike, which makes me feel like True Strike is just situational, a skill you do when you have the chance and not something you add to your rotation, which in turn seems like it's a very minor DPS difference akin the discussion of which Thunder tier a BLM should be using.

I might be totally wrong, I do not know, that's why I'm asking.

I don't do ADS on my MNK so can't really comment on it.

[Elcura]

That's obvious, and that's why I'm asking how much DPS I'm missing by not doing True Strike all the time compared to doing Twin Snakes securing the buff and what are the experiences of other MNKs in Coil with it.

It is minor, and for short/unimportant fights I don't think it matters. But in a DPS race or drawn out encounter you'll be wanting the most damage with the most efficiency. Of course, you only do what you can handle since it's pretty much more detrimental to your DPS to second guess yourself and not do things correctly.

And that something is the tail WS that several bosses have (not just in Coil, Chimera, Hydra and Anantaboga to name the most common), it's not like you can stand at the rear and do your thing without any worries, doing a single WS like Bootshine is perfectly fine, doing two is not in many cases, since I haven't really tried to fit True Strike in my rotation and parse it, I can't really tell if it's worth it or not, hence my post.

From my experience, Demolish oftentimes lines up with Bootshine, using Demolish to trigger a rear WS means your next WS is not going to be Bootshine, and using Bootshine to trigger a rear WS means your next WS is not going to be True Strike, which makes me feel like True Strike is just situational, a skill you do when you have the chance and not something you add to your rotation, which in turn seems like it's a very minor DPS difference akin the discussion of which Thunder tier a BLM should be using.

I might be totally wrong, I do not know, that's why I'm asking.

I don't do ADS on my MNK so can't really comment on it.

It is minor DPS, but when you're considering how to play MNK at its very best this is it. It's your choice whether to use or not but in general triggering tail WS is good (provided no one is hit). You have your flank attacks (DK/TwS/Snap), your rear attacks (Bootshine/TS) and your neutral attacks (Demolish/ToD/Fracture). Use your neutral attacks to move into position or keep your level of activity going. There are limits however, and sometimes you just gotta go with something else.

True Strike should be part of your rotation in general. Not using it is out of the question, but getting positional bonus for it is up to you and the fight.

[Icarian]

True Strike should be part of your rotation in general. Not using it is out of the question, but getting positional bonus for it is up to you and the fight.

Huh, I can't believe I've been reading TS's tooltip wrong for so long, I always thought the 150 potency was part of the positioning bonus and not its base damage, what you said made me re-read it.

There's absolutely no reason to not use True Strike.

[Nitsuki]

This is a bit more "endgame" than the current topic, but I just saw this image posted on lolReddit and it's a nice layout to help compare iLv.90 gear (basically AF+1/Hero's vs Allagan) so you can prioritize your Mythology purchases.

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At first glance, prioritizing crit > det > speed it looks like BISs are:

head: Melee Circlet
body: Allagan Cuirass of Striking
hands: Allagan Gauntlets of Striking
waist: Allagan Tassets of Striking
legs: Allagan Trousers of Striking
feet: (both are identical, lol)
ears: Allagan Earrings of Striking
neck: Hero's Necklace of Slaying
wrists: Allagan Bracelets of Maiming
ring1: Hero's Ring of Slaying
ring2: Allagan Ring of Maiming

(correct me if that's not right)

Going back to this, i'm gonna pick up my AF2 feet next week after cap, and after that, going for necklace, of course that would mean that i'm below the minimum acc for coils. Lava toad legs will bring me back up past min. Would this be the ideal choice or actually save up for another piece like say AF2 legs which give an insane amount of acc, then feet then necklace, and use deviled eggs. Also Allagan body is turn 1 correct?

Also totally forgot to mention, that i actually have darklight legs, i guess in a way i answered my own question. lol however, any help would do.

*last edit i hope*
One thing that was not mentioned in this which is a good piece is Hero's belt of Maiming, +16 Acc and +11 Crit. i dono why the spreadsheet mentioned that piece when it's a drg only piece.

SO now here's my thing, i'm currently sitting on 485 acc and 439 crit (w/ peltast legs, rest darklight except for AF2 head). Now I get AF2 feet, and i gain +6 str, but my acc goes down to 469 (under coils?), but raise my crit another 15 (454).

Is it worth going back to DL legs (another 4 str, total of +10, and bring my acc w/o food to 496 and crit to 430) or Keep using peltast and use another food? (the +8 max from deviled eggs will bring me up to 477 acc)

[Kawfee]

Is there actual hard and fast evidence that coil requires 470(?) acc? Or is that just a "best guess"? Maybe at 470 acc you miss once out of 100 swings, etc. I've only run Turn 1 twice, but I have 506 accuracy using full DL and Spharai+1 and never missed (just supporting prior claim of assumed accuracy levels needed): http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...aracter/14721/

On Caduceus I was trading off top DPS (by my measurement, which is the aggro meter, since parsers broken) with a DRG who was full DL, NQ relic, and af+1 body.

I'd take the AF+1 piece and DL. Always use DL over peltast, IMO, and always use AF+1 over DL.