Pugilist/monk discussion

[Kiarax]

After finally playing Monk, I can say, it is FAR easier then BRD

Lol.

[Tsutsumiko]

Because retards yelled for BRD nerf and buffs to all other DPS the last few months. After finally playing Monk, I can say, it is FAR easier then BRD and my shit-ass wp/ak/allagan Monk is already getting pretty close in DPS to my BRD.

Also, wait wut? How did you get that conclusion? If you want to do good damage, MNK is incredibly easy.

If you want to do the most or the best damage though? You have to work for that. I've seen the DRG flowchart, and I still think ours is harder. There's an optimal way to combo with no stacks, 1 stack, 2 stacks, and 3 stacks.

If you're letting Greased Lightning, Dragon Kick, Twin Snakes, Demolish, Fracture, or Touch of Death ever drop, you're doing it wrong. Besides Silence duty, what else do BRDs have to keep track of when trying to DPS?

[Seravi Edalborez]

Current lazyflank MNK is admittedly pretty faceroll. But yeah going the extra mile is a bit more work than it is for lolBRD.

[Lucavi]

15 DTR is better than 15Crit, then Alla tanking legs just got a fat nerf.

Huh.

[Tsutsumiko]

15 DTR is better than 15Crit, then Alla tanking legs just got a fat nerf.

Huh.

Yeah. Not happy cause I just picked those guys up from Coil the other day on WAR. I don't really understand the logic. :/

[Andradi]

15 DTR is better than 15Crit, then Alla tanking legs just got a fat nerf.

Huh.

34 crit vs 24 det on the old ones. It's probably about even?

I seem to recall seeing something about crit scaling better as you got more, no idea if that has credibility.

[Kiarax]

15 DTR is better than 15Crit, then Alla tanking legs just got a fat nerf.

Huh.

Stat weights are diff on WAR, dunno if 24 DTR is better than 34 crit off the top of my head but difference is pretty much negligible. MNK has guaranteed crits on Bootshine which skews priorities in a pretty big way but WAR doesn't have to worry about that.

[Tsutsumiko]

Stat weights are diff on WAR, dunno if 24 DTR is better than 34 crit off the top of my head but difference is pretty much negligible. MNK has guaranteed crits on Bootshine which skews priorities in a pretty big way but WAR doesn't have to worry about that.

Change to bootshine changes it.

That said, you are correct that Determination is definitely stronger.

BiS For MNK is Looking like this:

Allagan Weapon
Melee Circlet
Allagan Body
Allagan Hands
Allagan Belt
Melee Pants
Allagan Boots
Maiming Earring
Maiming Choker (Hero's gives better DPS but 2 points under ACC cap)
Maiming Bracelet
Maiming Ring
Striking Ring

vs. the Old Setup

Allagan Weapon
Melee Circlet
Allagan Body
Allagan Hands
Allagan Belt
Melee Pants
Melee Pants
Hero's Earring of Slaying
Maiming Choker (Hero's gives better DPS but 2 points under ACC cap)
Maiming Bracelet
Maiming Ring
Striking Ring

The new build averages about an extra 1~2 points per auto attack and WS so it's definitely the strongest. The only concern is that your skill speed is under what's ideal with the top setup. I still think that's the way to go with the MNK changes. I still wish we could use Striking Choker without going under ACC Cap.

[Elcura]

Change to bootshine changes it.

That said, you are correct that Determination is definitely stronger.

BiS For MNK is Looking like this:

Allagan Weapon
Melee Circlet
Allagan Body
Allagan Hands
Allagan Belt
Melee Pants
Allagan Boots
Maiming Earring
Maiming Choker (Hero's gives better DPS but 2 points under ACC cap)
Maiming Bracelet
Maiming Ring
Striking Ring

vs. the Old Setup

Allagan Weapon
Melee Circlet
Allagan Body
Allagan Hands
Allagan Belt
Melee Pants
Melee Pants
Hero's Earring of Slaying
Maiming Choker (Hero's gives better DPS but 2 points under ACC cap)
Maiming Bracelet
Maiming Ring
Striking Ring

The new build averages about an extra 1~2 points per auto attack and WS so it's definitely the strongest. The only concern is that your skill speed is under what's ideal with the top setup. I still think that's the way to go with the MNK changes. I still wish we could use Striking Choker without going under ACC Cap.

Skillspeed matters a lot less now that Twin Snakes is 15 seconds rather than 12.

[Tsutsumiko]

Skillspeed matters a lot less now that Twin Snakes is 15 seconds rather than 12.

It didn't matter much to begin with. The lowest you can have is 341. That build is 355. You'd ideally want at least like 360ish.

You can probably rough it with good reaction time honestly.

[Voyage1970]

The new build averages about an extra 1~2 points per auto attack and WS so it's definitely the strongest. The only concern is that your skill speed is under what's ideal with the top setup. I still think that's the way to go with the MNK changes. I still wish we could use Striking Choker without going under ACC Cap.

Well ideal Skill Speed will be different now that Twin Snakes buff lasts 15s instead of 12s. Should be easier to squeeze in True Strikes now even with the almost negligible loss of Skill Speed.

Edit: Beaten, blargh.

[Kiarax]

Change to bootshine changes it.

Wha? It's still guaranteed crit.

[Voyage1970]

Doing some math for rotation. Even with 341 Skill Speed (Base) with GLIII you should still be able to rotate True Strike and Twin Snakes and keep the Twin Snakes buff up. 15% Skill Speed from GLIII lowers base GCD (2.5) to 2.12. Twin Snake buff lasts 15s. Going Twin > Snap = 2.12s so Twin > Snap > BS > TS > Demo > Frac > DK > Twin again is 2.12*7 = 14.84s which is just barely enough to keep the buff up fulltime. Adding ToD will make you lose the buff temporarily but if you time it correctly you should only lose the 10% buff for Twin Snakes itself which now is your weakest attack so not that much of a loss (198.8 > 184.8 about a 7.5% decrease overall)

[Obsidian]

Fracture is the lowest potency DoT of the three and the least TP-efficient. I'd rather drop Fracture altogether and not lose Twin Snakes every time I need to move for a Weight/Bit/Plume/Laser/whatever.

[Elcura]

Yeah, I'd skip fracture if TwS was gonna drop and ToD needed reapplying. Overall it seems like there shouldn't be any problems with rotations at varying skillspeeds.

[Tsutsumiko]

Wha? It's still guaranteed crit.

I'm bad. I thought the Crit Change was on Bootshine, not True Strike. Reading is fundamental.

Fracture is the lowest potency DoT of the three and the least TP-efficient. I'd rather drop Fracture altogether and not lose Twin Snakes every time I need to move for a Weight/Bit/Plume/Laser/whatever.

I've never had a problem keeping all of them up while still dodging. Learn the edge of your attacks and start them as you walk out of range. You will still connect even though you're a mile away from them. This is how I do walk away Demolishes, Twin Snakes and Touch of Deaths while still dodging Repelling Shot, Plumes, Liquid Hell, etc.

[Moridam]

my general patch notes reaction: i'm kind of bummed about b4b/RoD/virus nerfs, and i had been holding out hope that the GL adjustments were going to lengthen the duration or make the stacks decrease one by one. but for the most part, i can manage with the existing timer, so with that said...

holy shit i can't believe how much monk got in this patch, and i surely can't fathom why we got it all. 2.1 will be our 2004 RNG era, and accordingly, 2.2 will surely deliver a type of wrath not seen since the great and glorious RNG nerf of 2005. i plan to enjoy it while it lasts

[Deadgye]

Also, wait wut? How did you get that conclusion? If you want to do good damage, MNK is incredibly easy.

If you want to do the most or the best damage though? You have to work for that. I've seen the DRG flowchart, and I still think ours is harder. There's an optimal way to combo with no stacks, 1 stack, 2 stacks, and 3 stacks.

If you're letting Greased Lightning, Dragon Kick, Twin Snakes, Demolish, Fracture, or Touch of Death ever drop, you're doing it wrong. Besides Silence duty, what else do BRDs have to keep track of when trying to DPS?

This confuses me, but perhaps it's because I've really only played bard. How are you reapplying dots over themselves without letting the drop first? Does monk not make use of internal release or blood for blood often? As a bard I pretty much have to let most of my dots drop before reapplying them.

As for what bard keeps track of.. gotta keep venomous strike and windbite up as much as possible and make sure that straight shot buff is always up. The rest is mostly reactionary stuff. If heavy shot triggers straighter shot you don't want to use heavy shot again before using straight shot. Hit bloodletter in between the gcd when it's been reset. Misery's End asap when the mob drops below 20% hp. Keep track of the mages mp in case you need to ballad. Pay attention to the enemy and/or tanks hp so you can throw a rain of death up (not anymore! ; . Flaming arrow stuff.

If you want to go hard mode bard, which personally is too complicated for me so I don't bother: You remember which of your 4 other buffs you had active when you put on your dots and which ones you have on now so you can determine if you need to let your dots drop first or if you can go ahead and reapply them right before they drop. And you fit in your other off gcd moves like repelling strike and shadowbind and blunted arrow in whenever you can.

I definitely wouldn't call non-hard mode bard difficult to play, but it's definitely very active. I'm probably not too far from averaging two abilities every global cooldown.

[Icarian]

Kinda worried about MNK becoming the flavor of the month to be honest lol

[Ratatapa]

Kinda worried about MNK becoming the flavor of the month to be honest lol

XIV's version of samurai?