Pugilist/monk discussion

[Elites]

Fracture is really unnecessary post 2.1, nerfed dmg. I'd stick with ToD and MAYBE demolish, otherwise BS/TS boost dmg seems to be a better fit now for extended damage.

[Seravi Edalborez]

I see no reason to skip Demolish post-patch on anything that lives long enough, if you're implying it's optional.

[Niiro]

Fracture is really unnecessary post 2.1, nerfed dmg. I'd stick with ToD and MAYBE demolish, otherwise BS/TS boost dmg seems to be a better fit now for extended damage.

1. Fracture's damage wasn't nerfed.

2. If you're not using Demolish you need to find a new job.

3. Fracture is more damage than True and technically more than Boot (Boot is 150 potency with a guaranteed crit, so roughly 225 potency, Fracture is 220 potency and can still crit for more damage).

Also, Fracture is actually even closer to ToD than it appears because 100 of Fracture's potency is from initial damage, which is increased by DK's blunt enfeeb. ToD is only 20 potency on the initial damage and DoTs aren't effected by things like blunt/piercing/slashing enfeebs.

[Elcura]

My point is that you want me to spend TP on Fracture that could be spent on Touch of Death, which is more damage than Fracture. The only place I use Fracture is Atomos because it doesn't live long enough for TP to be an issue and there's no risk of losing Twin Snakes while doing so. I don't see the point in using Fracture when A) that TP could be spent on Touch of Death and B) using it almost guarantees you're going to drop Twin Snakes if you need to move.

It has less to do with laziness and more to do with "I don't understand why I would want to use it outside this one specific encounter."

You aren't trying nearly hard enough if Fracture is this big of a concern. I've played MNK on every fight and on most occasions where I don't have TP it's because I fucked up and died or needed to spam a bunch of AoE moves. TP management isn't that difficult but you still have to do it. It's laziness because it's totally easy and worthwhile to add Fracture to your rotation and then take it out when you're low on TP. And if you don't understand why you would need to do more damage as a DPS then find another role.

So yes use Fracture, manage your TP, and be a better MNK. There isn't an excuse other than you don't want to. It's worthwhile so figure it out.

[Kiarax]

Why is there even any debate over whether we should use our 3 strongest WS? Fucking "MAYBE demolish"... dropping the strongest WS we have that doesn't even cost extra TP, pro 2.1 MNK strats.

[Icarian]

The only time I don't bother with Fracture are in situations like Caduceus, bosses where I'm going to be 100% of the time WSing away and will most likely be/run out of TP by the end. That's the only time I see myself dropping fracture/not applying it altogether.

[genuinelying]

anyone can share a 2.1 bis build for all three weapons? I'm screwing around with a few different sets using a stat weight of str>det>crit>ss. Want to see if my findings differ.

[Nitsuki]

The only time I don't bother with Fracture are in situations like Caduceus, bosses where I'm going to be 100% of the time WSing away and will most likely be/run out of TP by the end. That's the only time I see myself dropping fracture/not applying it altogether.

Everyone sounds like they struggle with tp badly. It also sounds like they're the only dps in there so they have to tun out of tp. Yea my current i90 gear gives me a lot of skillspeed (fuck allagan drops), but i barely have trouble w/ tp and i'm in constant motion rotating WSes and demolish/ToD/fracture. I end up popping invigorate afterwards. Not to sound like an asshole or anything, but i'm topping parsers (loldots) against other i90s and under just fine. I should be the one who has the most tp issues cuz i have a skillspeed build that i'm trying to get away from every week.

[Obsidian]

You aren't trying nearly hard enough if Fracture is this big of a concern. I've played MNK on every fight and on most occasions where I don't have TP it's because I fucked up and died or needed to spam a bunch of AoE moves. TP management isn't that difficult but you still have to do it. It's laziness because it's totally easy and worthwhile to add Fracture to your rotation and then take it out when you're low on TP. And if you don't understand why you would need to do more damage as a DPS then find another role.

So yes use Fracture, manage your TP, and be a better MNK. There isn't an excuse other than you don't want to. It's worthwhile so figure it out.

I understand perfectly well why I want to do more damage, I don't understand how Fracture helps accomplish that 95% of the time. I could be getting more uptime out of Touch of Death with the TP that Fracture uses, and putting Fracture in your rotation all but guarantees that you'll drop Twin Snakes if you need to avoid anything.

My priority has always been maintain buffs > manage TP > maintain DoTs. I throw Fracture out when I have to disengage from the boss (to kill adds/the boss is jumping/whatever) or when Blood for Blood/Internal Release are about to drop, otherwise Demolish and Touch of Death are the two I keep up. I still don't see a compelling reason to use burn TP on Fracture outside of a few very specific scenarios, and when I'm in those situations, I do use it.

[Elcura]

I understand perfectly well why I want to do more damage, I don't understand how Fracture helps accomplish that 95% of the time. I could be getting more uptime out of Touch of Death with the TP that Fracture uses, and putting Fracture in your rotation all but guarantees that you'll drop Twin Snakes if you need to avoid anything.

My priority has always been maintain buffs > manage TP > maintain DoTs. I throw Fracture out when I have to disengage from the boss (to kill adds/the boss is jumping/whatever) or when Blood for Blood/Internal Release are about to drop, otherwise Demolish and Touch of Death are the two I keep up. I still don't see a compelling reason to use burn TP on Fracture outside of a few very specific scenarios, and when I'm in those situations, I do use it.

So you understand why you want to do more damage, but you don't understand how using a WS do to more damage helps? I think we got a lost cause here, do whatever you want.

[Obsidian]

You can go back and actually read what I wrote, if you want, because I'm pretty tired of repeating myself, and the words you're putting in my mouth are not at all the words I'm actually using.

[Elcura]

I've read what you've wrote, and you're just making a bunch of excuses for shit I've already covered. You can't keep up a 15 second buff while dodging? What am I supposed to say here? Use Twin Snakes so it doesn't drop? Oh, I guess that was easy.

There is no problem here. Stop being lazy and making dumb excuses. Or you can keep telling me you don't understand why Fracture is damage.

[Berabouman]

While we're on the subject, let me just say thanks for clearing up the ToD/Fracture issue. Basically I wanted to know if they were worth using, and I discovered they were, so that's great.

Also, I'm not sure how people are running out of TP if you can pop Invigorate when you hit 600, and then again sometime later in the fight when it's off CD, by which time whatever you are fighting should be dead. That being said, I have done very little end-game content, so maybe some fights take forever and you eventually run out of TP?

[Lazarus]

Hi,

Is there a general consensus for if DET or CHR is better than the other? Or is a mixture of them best?

Also, is there a "this is the BiS MNK possible"?

Thanks!

[shidobu]

Hi,

Is there a general consensus for if DET or CHR is better than the other? Or is a mixture of them best?

Also, is there a "this is the BiS MNK possible"?


Thanks!

charisma for provoke

str > crit > det > acc > skill

[Nitsuki]

Dobu, did you copy my avatar?!?!?

[lolwut]

How far are Fist of Crags from nq relic now that they've been bumped up to ilvl 80? I'm leveling the class as something to play on the side, but don't anticipate dropping any myth on a +1 for it in the near future.

[Andradi]

Identical, but trade skill speed (Spharai) for determination.

So, Titan's are probably better.

[Niiro]

Use Titan, get Hellish, profit.

(tho hellish claws look kinda lame in general imo, especially in combat, you'd expect the nails to just shatter if you tried to punch something with them)

[genuinelying]

Hi,

Is there a general consensus for if DET or CHR is better than the other? Or is a mixture of them best?

Also, is there a "this is the BiS MNK possible"?

Thanks!

After capping Acc, it's STR>DET>CRIT>SS