Pugilist/monk discussion

[Niiro]

^

Should still open with Boot tho since you don't have to worry about the direction, if you're not on the flank for DK you lose the 150 potency.

[Lokus]

I usually open with Bootshine cause it's the same potency anywhere as a flank DK. Saves time ever so slightly on positioning at the start of the fight if you're starting with no stances.

[Elcura]

Silly. Opening a combo (with or without Perfect Balance) with Dragon Kick is pointless. You don't inflict the Dragon Kick debuff unless you're in Opo-opo form which you wont have while initially opening so all you're doing is robbing yourself of a guaranteed critical hit by not opening with Bootshine instead.

You don't crit if you aren't in Opo-opo. The opening doesn't matter much because ToD gives you time to be where ever you want. Though yeah opening with Bootshine is safer, I just kept the old habit because layout and routine.

But I suppose potentially losing 50 potency on your very first attack is a huge deal. If you lose it.

[CerberusResin]

I've been sticking to ToD > flank for DK > twin > snap > behind for bootshine > truestrike > demolish > fracture > repeat from dk tossing in ToD when needed. This is mostly for bosses and I try to save perfect balance for sometime during the fight when I know I wont be able to keep GL3 up do to fight mechanics. Should I be doing it a little differently?

[Niiro]

With that starting rotation you're not getting the blunt enfeeb, you don't get it on the opening DK and you're following up with Bootshine for the next.

[StUfF]

I've been sticking to ToD > flank for DK > twin > snap > behind for bootshine > truestrike > demolish > fracture > repeat from dk tossing in ToD when needed. This is mostly for bosses and I try to save perfect balance for sometime during the fight when I know I wont be able to keep GL3 up do to fight mechanics. Should I be doing it a little differently?

Get Demolish up ASAP it's damage is significantly better than Snap. You don't have the DK debuff until your third rotation.
The quicker you use PB the quicker it comes off CD for any mid-fight needs. Being able to use PB twice to start up your GLx3 is better than only once.

[Shwtym]

I honestly forgot about Opo with bootshine -.- but yeah like you said still the 'safer' option less chance of a moving mob robbing you of 50 potency.

[Tsutsumiko]

So last week I got Allagan Weapon on my main and Allagan Body on my Alt.

After testing both of them for a while this weekend, I'm honestly astounded by the Weapon. I threw down to do a pickup Titan Extreme and was blown away to see that I was pulling almost 30% of the damage, almost double the total of every other DPS in the fight. I'm used to pulling about 24~25% of damage in the fight, not 30%. I was strong enough to kill the super bomb at the end of post-heart phase with just me, a WHM, and a tank and then kill at least one Egi before we wiped. So yeah... damage increase is PRETTY INSANE.

The body on the other hand is kind of a let down, and maybe it's because of my low iLevel on the Alt (I'm only i80 atm). It is a damage increase over Cyclas but it isn't as big as I thought it'd be. At least the Allagan Body looks awesome!

So other than that, I have a question to ask: Why do people like Melee Gloves? Several times in the past few weeks with random people as well as FC mates I've gotten into an argument of which is better: Allagan Gauntlets of Striking vs. Melee Gloves.

I honestly can't figure out why you'd choose the Melee Gloves. The most common thing I keep hearing is that with Perfect Balance, Melee Gloves allow you to hit 5 GCDs. When I explain I always hit 5 GCDs with Allagan, I'm usually met with the whole "I'm lying" or "Lag/latency doesn't allow for it all the time." I just don't see how 4 Determination + 15 Skill Speed is going to beat out 21 Crit for Damage.

[Grey Jorildyn]

MNK gets a lot of benefit out of DET. There's a lot of it available to MNK. Some may feel that Crit Rate is cheapened by the force crit on Bootshine and IR's 30% crit bonus when MNK main. I can see where they're coming from but you're right in that they're choosing the worst of the two. If someone is that picky about skill speed they're probably better off getting a cyclas instead, since the MNK body is "less available" to the majority of players.

[Obsidian]

But melee gloves are hideous, so it doesn't even matter if they're actually better or not.

[Elcura]

But melee gloves are hideous, so it doesn't even matter if they're actually better or not.

Thiiiiis. At ilvl 90 I couldn't care much what I'm wearing outside of turn 5. Looks > anything.

[StUfF]

So last week I got Allagan Weapon on my main and Allagan Body on my Alt.

After testing both of them for a while this weekend, I'm honestly astounded by the Weapon. I threw down to do a pickup Titan Extreme and was blown away to see that I was pulling almost 30% of the damage, almost double the total of every other DPS in the fight. I'm used to pulling about 24~25% of damage in the fight, not 30%. I was strong enough to kill the super bomb at the end of post-heart phase with just me, a WHM, and a tank and then kill at least one Egi before we wiped. So yeah... damage increase is PRETTY INSANE.

The body on the other hand is kind of a let down, and maybe it's because of my low iLevel on the Alt (I'm only i80 atm). It is a damage increase over Cyclas but it isn't as big as I thought it'd be. At least the Allagan Body looks awesome!

So other than that, I have a question to ask: Why do people like Melee Gloves? Several times in the past few weeks with random people as well as FC mates I've gotten into an argument of which is better: Allagan Gauntlets of Striking vs. Melee Gloves.

I honestly can't figure out why you'd choose the Melee Gloves. The most common thing I keep hearing is that with Perfect Balance, Melee Gloves allow you to hit 5 GCDs. When I explain I always hit 5 GCDs with Allagan, I'm usually met with the whole "I'm lying" or "Lag/latency doesn't allow for it all the time." I just don't see how 4 Determination + 15 Skill Speed is going to beat out 21 Crit for Damage.

It's primarily the 4 DET.
If you follow up to date stat weightings and damage formulae - DET has roughly double the weighting of SS or CRIT, whilst CRIT + SS are very similar, less than 5% difference iirc.

So just very roughly from 4 DET + 15 SS you can 23 points of stats compared to 21 CRIT . Assuming in any fights where you don't run out of TP the melee gloves do more damage in theory.

[Obsidian]

Where are said weightings and formulae (preferably with accompanying datasets and proofs)?

[Judai]

So just very roughly from 4 DET + 15 SS you can 23 points of stats compared to 21 CRIT .

The issue with this logic is that skill speed is only helpful in certain increments, so it could fall in value, to 18pts, if you don't have enough skill speed to lower your recast by .02.

[StUfF]

Where are said weightings and formulae (preferably with accompanying datasets and proofs)?

WD 8.321
STR 1
DTR 0.329
CRT 0.163
SS 0.157

Stat weightings from EasymodeX of official forums using a modified Valk
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...43#post1760843
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...08#post1761108

You can find discussion/datapoints in this thread regarding the damage formulae.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Formula-Thread

The issue with this logic is that skill speed is only helpful in certain increments, so it could fall in value, to 18pts, if you don't have enough skill speed to lower your recast by .02.

I've never heard of any skill speed breakpoints? Are you sure it's not linear like any other stat?

[Judai]

I've never heard of any skill speed breakpoints? Are you sure it's not linear like any other stat?

Just equip gear and check your recast times...

From base skill speed(341), I add 9 skill speed and it drops .01, I add 12 and it drops by .01(3sks is worthless), I add 16 and it drops .02.

I add 16, -.02, I add another 9, -.01 additional, for -.03 total drop. (25sks for a .03 recast reduction)
I add 16, -.02, I add another 16, -.01 additional, for -.03 total drop and 7 worthless sks. (32sks for a .03 recast reduction)

The only thing Skill Speed changes is recast timers, so if you add skill speed and it doesn't change the timer, it's worthless. Therefore, if you add 15 skill speed and it doesn't take off .02s of recast, the full 15sks isn't being used and it's stat weight is diminished.

[Icarian]

WD 8.321
STR 1
DTR 0.329
CRT 0.163
SS 0.157

I seriously doubt Determination is anywhere near that value. I feel It's more within the realm of 1:5 STR:DET and not 1:3 as that would mean that by default any piece with determination is better than one without, seeing as it's weight is more than double that of Crit

Should be somewhat easy to test, every (small) test I've seen, does not back the 1:3 ratio at all.

[datkoops]

I seriously doubt Determination is anywhere near that value. I feel It's more within the realm of 1:5 STR:DET and not 1:3 as that would mean that by default any piece with determination is better than one without, seeing as it's weight is more than double that of Crit

Should be somewhat easy to test, every (small) test I've seen, does not back the 1:3 ratio at all.

I'd think DET is especially important for monk, seeing as increasing the damage of every single hit seems more beneficial to a DOT class than slightly increasing the chance of critical hits.

These weights came from EMX, whose word on melee DPS is pretty much considered gospel.

[Nitsuki]

Switched out my melee cyclas for fuma koromo, the dps increase was very noticeable. My det build is up to 346 w/ food now. I still need t4 belt and boots and allagan weapon.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Part of the shift to Det being weighted heavily on MNK was (probably over-exaggeration on my part, from memory) is that it boosts auto-attacks, which are not an insignificant part of MNK's total damage.