Pugilist/monk discussion

[Mira]

This is what i currently have for when i hit 50 http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MDTE does it look ok?
The only thing i was worried about is that i have no skillspeed on any of the gear but, i'm not sure if that matters or not lol

[Nitsuki]

That's extremely good and i'm jelly i never got t5 weapon drop.

[Mira]

Okie, cool lol ^^

[Ratatapa]

What do you guys do for Perfect Balance Rotation?

My MNK (3rd job) is geared like this atm

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MMH7

And i can pull 340 on Dummies without using perfect balance

So i'm pretty sure i can do better, but could use a good perfect balance rotation to boost that DPS

(340 is no food no potion)

[Nullibicity]

Is determination or crit rate better to have if there is an option?

[Nitsuki]

Det

[OWS_Tonx]

What do you guys do for Perfect Balance Rotation?

My MNK (3rd job) is geared like this atm

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MMH7

And i can pull 340 on Dummies without using perfect balance

So i'm pretty sure i can do better, but could use a good perfect balance rotation to boost that DPS

(340 is no food no potion)

I am not a career monk at all but one of the guys in FC says he uses it when starting a fight to bring up GL3 asap and just spams snap punch and ends the last hit with demolish. No idea if he waits to put on dragon kick and twin snakes first or not though

[Alistaire]

That depends on the fight tbh. Using it at the start of certain fights where mob disappears soon after the start of the fight kind of makes it a waste. Fights like garuda ex, titan ex, best not to use PB at the start where you're only getting a few cycles in before not having anything to attack for long enough for GL to drop.

Also of note: if you start a fight with dragon kick, you don't apply the debuff if it's your first hit, but you do apply the debuff if it's your first hit and PB is up. And you're likely going to have 5 moves to spend with it up so it's easy enough to go Dragon Kick > Snap Punch x3 > Demolish.

[Kaixin]

shoulder tackle, fracture while tank pulls
PB while boss is turning
Demo
SP
DK
TwS
SP
(PB OFF)
TD
rear combo

[Almalexia]

PB while boss is turning
Demo
SP
DK
TwS
SP
(PB OFF)
TD

Pretty much this. If you can fit 6 moves into your PB, slip in another Snap before DK. And I personally use ToD at the start in lieu of Fracture.

[Elcura]

Specifics don't matter overly much, just keep a few things in mind.

Get GL3 first, apply your debuffs and buffs and pay attention to how many attacks you can get done. Usually this means SPx3, with TwS, DK and Demo thrown into the mix depending on order and what is up/present.

Obviously, if you've applied TwS buff you needn't do it during PB unless it's going to run out, same with DK or Demo. Do not do anything other than moves that get you to GL3 before getting GL3. If you start with DK or TwS you will not get GL stacks and your GCD will remain slow and your attacks weak which can prevent you getting in a final attack during PB (depends on speed).

Before popping PB, ensure ToD is put on, this way it ticks during your PB combo and can be reapplied again later with buffs. Weave in non-GCD moves anytime after obtaining GL2 (replace with offensive CDs if you want) and never do 2 non-GCD back to back.

As for specific moves, I tend to do:

ToD (gives time for positioning the boss) > PB > SPx3 > TwS > DK (PB ends here) > Bootshine > TS > Demo > Fracture > ToD. You apply buffs during the 2nd or 3rd Snap Punch which ensures ToD can be put back up with 6-10 seconds left. This can be tight on timing and requires a little practice, but after trying it out (I forgot who suggested it) I like using it.

There's also:

ToD > PB > SPx3 > TwS > Demo (PB ends here) > Fracture > DK > TS > SP. I used to do this, it's simple and effective and doesn't require much timing wise.

Finally, starting with GL1:

PB > SPx2 > TwS > DK > Demo (PB ends here) > Fracture > ToD

So with more GL, all you do is reapply what you need (DK/TwS/Demo) then SP more.

[Sigmakan]

Been doing:
Shoulder Tackle
ToD
PB ON
Demolish
Snap
Snap
DK
Bootshine
PB OFF

Thinking about replacing the bootshine with True or maybe even TwS.

How does one fit 6 moves in with PB? If I pop PB too soon after ToD I sometimes only get 4 moves in. Then again, I have very minimal SS.

[Kaixin]

Being able to fit in 6 skills is news to me. Here's why I do what I do and why you should do what I do.

Shoulder tackle engage
Fracture - I don't TOD first because the first thing I do after PB falls is a fully amped TOD. Fracture will get through more potency than a cut off TOD.
>PB ON
Demo, GL1 (+9%) Falls off in time for the fully buffed demo after bootshine - true - demo
SP, need GL2's skillspeed to finish (+9%)
DK, buff (+~11%)
TwS, buff (+10%)
SP to finish (+9%, fully buffed now)
>PB OFF
TOD - earliest fully stacked TOD
Bootshine combo, leads to fully stacked True/Demo w/o losing ticks of the first Demo
into DK-TS-SP refreshes buffs before they fall.

[Obsidian]

Touch of Death > Perfect Balance > Demolish > Dragon Kick > Snap Punch > Twin Snakes > Demolish > rear combo (Snap Punch) > B4B > Dragon Kick > Internal Release > Twin Snakes > STR potion > Snap Punch > rear combo (Demolish) > Touch of Death. Fracture is bad, don't be bad.

Edit: Bold for emphasis.

[Almalexia]

How does one fit 6 moves in with PB? If I pop PB too soon after ToD I sometimes only get 4 moves in. Then again, I have very minimal SS.

Back in 2.0, with generous SS on Relic and such, you could squeeze in 6 attacks by a hair. It's passe now, given the way MNKs are built these days.

Fracture - I don't TOD first because the first thing I do after PB falls is a fully amped TOD. Fracture will get through more potency than a cut off TOD.

Any reason not to deploy fully-amped ToD after the original wears off? Opening ToD is still going to deal 270 potency for that GCD, which is more than you can do with any other opening attack--except for PB-Demo, which you're using next.

Better question: why not open with PB-Demo and go from there, using ToD afterward? GCD-for-GCD, you're using your highest-potency attack first and building GL one GCD earlier. Even if you accidentally Demo from any other direction, net potency from Demo will match ToD (270).

[Obsidian]

Touch of Death will start dealing damage one GCD earlier than PB > Demolish will, and allows time for your tank to get a hit in and turn the boss so you don't Demo from the side accidentally. No, there is no good reason to not do Touch of Death in place of Fracture. It's less damage per TP and less damage overall.

[Kaixin]

Any reason not to deploy fully-amped ToD after the original wears off? Opening ToD is still going to deal 270 potency for that GCD, which is more than you can do with any other opening attack--except for PB-Demo, which you're using next.

Because I want to get the ball rolling on maxed ToD ASAP. It takes about 12 seconds to get to your first skill after PB. If I open with TOD and let it run, I have to wait 18 extra seconds to reapply the next one. Not to mention, if I want B4B/IR/Xpot to affect TOD, I have to delay them too.

Better question: why not open with PB-Demo and go from there, using ToD afterward? GCD-for-GCD, you're using your highest-potency attack first and building GL one GCD earlier. Even if you accidentally Demo from any other direction, net potency from Demo will match ToD (270).

That's a good question. I don't have an answer. My initial reasoning is that tanks need time to spin the boss, I need a garbage skill to use while I wait for the boss to spin to get the back bonus, but like you said, even a frontal demolish is 270 potency. I really should just start off with PB-Demo after shoulder tackle.

[Kaixin]

Touch of Death will start dealing damage one GCD earlier than PB > Demolish will, and allows time for your tank to get a hit in and turn the boss so you don't Demo from the side accidentally. No, there is no good reason to not do Touch of Death in place of Fracture. It's less damage per TP and less damage overall.

Just looking at potency and leaving aside the issue of B4B/IR/pot timing, you can either have

1. (TOD before PB, TOD 30 seconds after first TOD)
- raw TOD

2. (Fracture before PB, TOD after PB)
- raw Fracture
- +6 ticks of max TOD in comparison to option 1

3. (TOD before PB, TOD after PB)
- 4 ticks of raw TOD
- +6 ticks of max TOD in comparison to option 1

I go with option 2, although I might just skip doing a skill pre-PB entirely now.

[Obsidian]

Raw ToD + buffed ToD = 613 potency
Raw Fracture + buffed ToD = 563 potency

Both pairs are the same TP cost. It's a waste to use Perfect Balance while not waiting on GCD because there's a one second delay before you can perform your first action anyway.

[Almalexia]

Touch of Death will start dealing damage one GCD earlier than PB > Demolish will, and allows time for your tank to get a hit in and turn the boss so you don't Demo from the side accidentally.

Both have on-hit damage, both tick at the same interval. How does ToD start dealing damage sooner?

Edit: didn't refresh the page. Makes sense due to off-cooldown delay.