Dungeon Sac pulls

[Kuishen]

It's Citadel of Flames all over again.

God dammit. That is part of the reason I quit GW2.

[Joyo]

I don't really care if people do this when they run with a group of friends but why do it this way with random people?
Someone always fucks up and everything turns into huge mess and a waste of time.
Luckily i run with a tank friend so we can just tell the DPS that we don't do sac runs. It's not like any of them drop out to eat the 15min penalty and sit another hour in queue.

[MrSamuels]

Doesn't help that the tank dying once results in less durability loss than him tanking all of the adds up to the bosses and the DPS/Healer get no decay what so ever, decay on gear for being in combat is way too high in this game and they need to reverse it around, sounds trivial but after 6 runs i didnt have to repair once, compared to two runs of doing trash and having a 12k repair bill at the end of it.

[arus2001]

I agree

Will third. Always had sac pulls in general. Some times it's a case of a dev overtuning a particular pack of mobs to make it too hard for your average group, but more often it's the issue others have noted in trash simply not being rewarding. I've said it before that dungeons could benefit from dropping more loot. If it means the mobs dropping tokens, good craft mats, or even useable gear, I wouldn't complain in the slightest.

Of course, I've disliked durability systems, too, but that's another matter.

[Meresgi]

So what are sac pulls? Just rushing to the boss, dying and then having self rez on the healer to get everyone up? or do trash leash after a certain point? 1st time tanking in a MMO that isn't WoW so never really used this sort of shit.

[Waraji]

Sac, tank dies at the boss room, healer rez. Do boss. Rinse & repeat for however many bosses there are.

It's called efficiency, if the developers would make dungeons with no trash mobs to waste time/gil(repairs) on, and just series of boss mobs, the game would be that much more enjoyable. As it is, no one will want to spend 120 minutes in a damn dungeon, when you need to do said dungeons x number of times to get some drops or tokens.

Sure, there's only one dungeon to spam at the moment, but extrapolate out when there are more dungeons like this to do.

I suspect the aggro mechanics will get shuffled around to include the entire party so that you can't sac pull anymore. Without Re-raise (self Resurrect), it's going to be a pain in the dick to think you can sac pull seeing as mobs don't leash in dungeons.

[Eldelphia]

It's called efficiency, if the developers would make dungeons with no trash mobs to waste time/gil(repairs) on, and just series of boss mobs, the game would be that much more enjoyable. As it is, no one will want to spend 120 minutes in a damn dungeon, when you need to do said dungeons x number of times to get some drops or tokens.

The point is though that whilst we're capped at 50 right now, in the future we won't be and Dungeons are decent xp alongside getting loot. Nothing we're doing in game a week after release is realistically 'endgame'. It's just the closest we have to it right now...

[Meresgi]

Well dungeons have trash, that's the name of the game. I would rather see them just make party wide aggro and then drop the durability hit for tanking trash. While it's super fast and good for farming I dont get it really...I mean its the same as people who just fate grinded to 50 in the past week....why? Just enjoy the fucking game for once. This isn't World of Warcraft. I don't feel "OMG I NEED TO GET TO LVL CAP SO I CAN GEAR UP TO KILL RAGNAROS" in this game, im having fun just screwing around while leveling up. I grind dungeons 3-5 times for gear I know i'll replace in 4 lvls just because why not?

[Izzy]

Takes us 15ish minutes to run Amdapor Keep, but there's one pull that always causes two people to die.

On the pull right before the Demon Wall, the statues seemingly won't spawn until two people enter the area, causing the 2nd person in the area to get aggro as well. It's not a huge deal, since those two people just die, get raised, then fight the wall. Still, I don't know if that always happens, or it's just something that we're screwing up every time.

[Waraji]

the future we won't be and Dungeons are decent xp alongside getting loot.

No, I hear that, but I'm not going to Amdapor Keep to level, I'm going there to get tokens, and at Best get better at my jobs, and maximize my rotations. You're not going to do any of that on trash mobs. When the level cap is raised, MAYBE, maybe I'll go there to do trash mobs. In the meantime, speed runs while the getting is good.

Does that make me a terrible person? Does that make this game a terrible game? Play something else if it's so terrible, because I'll still be here playing the game when the developers release the content, not hopping MMO's trying to find something that doesn't exist.

[Meresgi]

Does that make me a terrible person? Does that make this game a terrible game?

It is what it is, devs should always realize people will take the route of least resistance. It does make you a horrible person though...just because you're a horrible person. You should feel bad about everything you do!

[Sephiroth]

If SE wanted to fix this all they'd have to do is not pop the boss until all the mobs are dead. I like efficiency too but I'll not be happy if I get rushed through a story dungeon because some random only cares about the tokens. This is why SE shouldn't mix story and end-game.

[Meresgi]

If SE wanted to fix this all they'd have to do is not pop the boss until all the mobs are dead. I like efficiency too but I'll not be happy if I get rushed through a story dungeon because some random only cares about the tokens. This is why SE shouldn't mix story and end-game.

I already plan on laughing at people if they piss and moan about me or others watching cutscenes. I don't even care if the boss doesn't require a tank, my ass is standing there till i'm good and ready.

[Waraji]

Yeah, luckily though, the dungeons in question aren't really story dungeons, and have minimal cutscenes but for the final boss spawns. Particularly, I don't mind people watching cutscenes for the story dungeons, but it should be expressly decided upon at the start of the dungeon. I've had a couple of groups where the ones skipping through wouldn't even consider a discussion on it and would get pissed for others watching cutscenes on their first run through. Not sure why they would bother farming Praetorium and Miridianum when Amdapor is so damn easy. Leave those for the people doing story quests, or when helping friends, let your friends enjoy the cutscenes man. Gotta combine to create the Megazorg!

[Krandor]

Keep (OK, really just Demon Wall) requires a margin of skill, whereas the 8 man options don't need shit.

[Sephiroth]

I already plan on laughing at people if they piss and moan about me or others watching cutscenes. I don't even care if the boss doesn't require a tank, my ass is standing there till i'm good and ready.

Best way to do it I reckon.

I'm actually surprised people are trying to do speed runs via the duty finder, the PUGs I find myself in struggle enough with the 30+ dungeons.

[Meresgi]

Best way to do it I reckon.

I'm actually surprised people are trying to do speed runs via the duty finder, the PUGs I find myself in struggle enough with the 30+ dungeons.

This. As a tank in my 1st go through of a dungeon sometimes I will be thinking "is it really this hard? Do these things really hit me so hard?" then I tend to notice my cnj/whm spam casting stone on mobs while my hp dips to 200-300 before getting a cure. I can spam pull trash non stop as long as I trust the healer to keep me up during the entire thing...but a lot of pugs arnt very trustworthy for that lol. also dps not attacking my marked target make me want to hang myself.

[Tokitoki]

This. As a tank in my 1st go through of a dungeon sometimes I will be thinking "is it really this hard? Do these things really hit me so hard?" then I tend to notice my cnj/whm spam casting stone on mobs while my hp dips to 200-300 before getting a cure. I can spam pull trash non stop as long as I trust the healer to keep me up during the entire thing...but a lot of pugs arnt very trustworthy for that lol. also dps not attacking my marked target make me want to hang myself.

CNJ should be able to keep up DoTs and use Stone between Cures. Spamming Stone is a no, but they can certainly cast something other than Cure to actually contribute to damage. For the dungeons up through Copperbell and Ifrit a Cure can heal back 1/2 of a tanks HP as well. Can normally get two casts in before you need to Cure. Not sure what level you are talking about though.

[Wulfgang]

Easy fix is to pull a dynamis type situation (can't believe I'm using dynamis as an example for anything); trash drop tokens on a one-off basis periodically while bosses award larger lumps sums. If you were guaranteed only 20 tokens from the boss and the last 20 were from the trash mobs, you'd likely see more people full clear.

That said, I don't particularly mind the sac. It's a dungeon you are going to be running ~8 times a week for the next several weeks at least until patch 2.1; at this point in my life, whatever gets that done fastest is my favorite option.

[Spider-Dan]

this done 15 keeps this past weekend... told every sch/smn to put away the pet

Can't they put their pet on Steady?