Something lost when making game so easy/accommodating?

[Alarial]

First off, I wanted to say I've thoroughly enjoyed the game thus far. The tutorials and pacing has made it easy to understand and start off enjoying the many different diversions. The game is beautiful (when we get to play it), and the interface is relatively intuitive.

That being said, I feel like something important has been lost in my connection to my character and how each fight feels.

In FF11, it took forever to walk to a new zone, and when I got there, it was an amazing feeling. When I fought an enemy, each swing they took mattered, and I watched my TP bar eagerly as I balanced out fighting the right difficulty mobs.

This game almost feels like Diablo 3, where my toon is nearly invincible unless I just go into fights far above me, where any given mob is mostly irrelevant fodder, where I'm just "button mashing" pretty combos on the screen.

It's gorgeous, it's fun (for now), and it's easy to use, but have we taken the fundamental connection out of the game by making it so easy? Or has years of SE's torturous MMORPG design caused me to just be a glutton for punishment? Am I alone here?

[Alarial]

{double post}

[cassiraa]

I wish the game would let me challenge more difficult content. That's my biggest complaint. If I want to do a quest 3-4 levels over me, I want the game to let me. If it's too hard and I fail, that's on me, not the game. Some of the quests have been satisfyingly difficult but for the most part, the game doesn't let you do content 'above your level' [and thus: harder]. Some of the most fun I've been having lately is doing Leve quests with + levels difficulty when I'm a multiple of 5, but that's the only part of the game where it works.

That said, I'm hoping for CoP difficulty later dungeons and I'm not endgame myself yet [Just hit 30, actually. No Legacy]. So it's entirely possible that these concerns will disappear and I just have the comfort that they're showing low-level players so they don't get frustrated. I just wish there was the option to take on greater challenges other than only with leves.

[Intense]

Walking to a new zone should not make you feel amazing. That's crazy talk.

For me, when it took forever to get to a new zone, I'd think "fucking finally."

[Deejay]

I don't miss trecking through zones at all, but finally getting to jeuno at level 20 felt like an accomplishment. I wish there was a Jeuno in this game.

[Weltall]

Ah, the journey of a level 5 mule to Jeuno.

[Azull]

Near as I can tell you can start quest based off your highest job level, even if you aren't on it. I may be wrong on this though. You also cant seem to turn in the quest until you are the right level for the quest. I think this is to prevent people from completing a level x quest, changing to their level 1, and getting a few levels.

[SephYuyX]

I understand what's being said, and it's true, sort of.

Early XI was hard mode for basically every MMO out there, but not so much that it was really difficult (some stuff was obviously), but more just a pain in the ass because it was made in a way to take forever (claims, drops, story, etcetc), and to just bust your balls every step of the way.

XI is now much easier to play, and has basically just handed the world to each player, but for a game that's roots are ball busters, switching over to casual mode doesn't work, and I've basically finally given up on it. The challenges are what brought people together, and made it fun, but now.. not so much, idk how to say it.

However, XIV is super easy mode, but because it was made this way from the ground up.. it works. I can see why the lack of challenge puts people off, and even though the devs said there will be super hard things, people are still easily getting passed it, in a hopefully middle ground area where it still is hard, but yet obtainable enough for the normal person, while still rewarding.


As someone who has played XI for 11 years, is now 11 years older, married, home owner, having kids within the next x amount of years, in the job i'll be in for the rest of my life, etcetc.. I am glad XIV has a casual mindset. So while it may be easy, I can advance in game with a sporadic playtime. Because of this it is rewarding, at least for me. The only thing I can do in XI is gardening and monstrosity, and neither is pay 13$ a month fun anymore.

[Slycer]

I think it makes sense to release a game like a MMORPG where you want as wide an audience as possible to initially have a very casual-friendly (which some might refer to as "easy mode") design. The hints at how the game will become difficult are there with the mechanics involved in some of the boss fights and obviously stuff like the hard-mode primals and the Binding Coil, and I think that's a sign of things to come (we already know there are 2 more "hard" dungeons and another difficulty level of the primal fights coming in 2.1). I don't think it should be some huge, insurmountable challenge to get through the storyline (a la Chains of Promathia)... the story is core to the game and should be something that's there for every single player to get through without throwing their hands up in defeat.

It's 2013 now, and there's a new standard for what people expect in a game. Something like transportation should always be "easy mode," the game doesn't need to constantly be at odds with you like FFXI used to. I think Seph summed it up pretty nicely when he says FFXI was designed to challenge you every step of the way (not with difficulty, but more frequently with things that waste inordinate amounts of time) and FFXIV is designed with pretty much the opposite mindset... make things that everyone needs to do be relatively easy (experiencing the story, leveling up, getting around, etc.) and confine the challenge to specific places and activities that people can choose to participate in if they want, or completely avoid if they don't care.

[Intense]

I've been looking over my friends should while as he has done Cutter's Cry and the parties he has been in are having a lot of trouble passing it. So I think that this game gets increasingly difficult as you level up.

I wouldn't even say that the players having trouble are "bad" players; but its just they're new to it (maybe didn't play 1.0) and they're still getting their sea legs or its just a challenge for them. I think we're too quick to call things in this game easy mode just bc you can teleport around and our quests give us exp.

[Keisuke88]

I think the game has the right balance that is needed. You cant judge the game based on final fantasy 11 its a whole new game. The quests are easy for you to do because you can solo all the way up to level 50 unlike you final fantasy 11. In 11 once you hit level 11-13 you had to start making partys all the way up to max level. You cant make each quest super hard that it takes you 15 minutes to do one quest or it would take 3 months to get max level. As for walking every where, why in gods name do you feel an amazing feeling when you got there. I would get there and just go afk cause it took me 30 minutes to get across a zone i got tired of looking at my screen for 30 minutes just running.

[Slycer]

I've been looking over my friends should while as he has done Cutter's Cry and the parties he has been in are having a lot of trouble passing it. So I think that this game gets increasingly difficult as you level up.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say with boss fight mechanics being a pointer towards higher difficulty stuff to come. Qarn and Cutter's Cry are the first dungeons where strategy for the bosses is really important. I did them each a couple times with Duty Finder and it's not unusual for bosses (not just final bosses, mid-bosses as well) to take three or more tries until a group with folks new to the dungeon really understands what's going on.

[SephYuyX]

That reminds me.

I wish XI's quests gave out decent rewards for completing them. They were really fun quests for the most part (story wise at least, some of the tasks were poopypie), but since they often rewarded you nothing or just some crap mats, no one bothered to do them.

[Intense]

I did them each a couple times with Duty Finder and it's not unusual for bosses (not just final bosses, mid-bosses as well) to take three or more tries until a group with folks new to the dungeon really understands what's going on.

Yeah, and when you finally beat it... that's what should be making you feel 'amazing.' Not 'getting to a new zone;' what a weird sense of accomplishment...

[Deejay]

That reminds me.

I wish XI's quests gave out decent rewards for completing them. They were really fun quests for the most part (story wise at least, some of the tasks were poopypie), but since they often rewarded you nothing or just some crap mats, no one bothered to do them.

Yeah, you know their quest design was crap when Utsusemi Ni and Warp II sold for 2 mil each

[Blasta]

Im sure Yoshi P keeps his word and makes sure that theres going to be challenging content in future patches/expansions.

I guess it's still way too early, but what I would like to see is individual player skill becoming more important part of the game / boss fights like in XI. Of course theres already things like positioning, group damage mitigation and more that all require skill, but im hoping for a larger spectrum of 'tools' to separate good players from shitty ones. XI's lowman dyna was something I never forget, because (especially as a mage), sleeping and kiting mobs was often the deciding factor whether your party stayed alive or not. MP was also always scarce so every shadow that melees put up saved a ton of MP.

That being said though, I never want to play a game as hard as XI was, but I do hope that new tactical elements will be introduced in the future.

[Ksandra]

I'm too old for this shit.

[Corrderio]

I can sorta see the point from an XI vet point of view, though at the same time I think most of the "challenging" content came from low drop rates or some other type of hurdle like Seph said.

Though at the same time, I do agree the game feels kinda easyish. That level 15 fight outside of the Ul'Dah adventure guild against that PUG was probably one of the most boring fights I've done in an MMO. I'm just glad the difficulty seemed to pick up around 20.

[miokomioko]

I have been finding the later-level Job battles not only really fun, but also do a great job at tailoring you to understand the job's functions/capabilities. They will be a bit difficult if you look at each fight as a "I need to just burn everything down as fast as possible" thing instead of "I need to focus on doing my job here."

Also, mini-primal fights are a blast.

[Siatdiat]

What is this thread I don't even, kill it with fire.