Something lost when making game so easy/accommodating?

[Ksandra]

That doesn't mean its harder, they just like creativity in dickishness lol

I worded that wrong. Harder to make anyone care about you.

ie. if we had a server player warning section and you warned others about some dude who said they should kill themselves, everyone would laugh at you.

There's really no need for a player warning section, because the dicks aren't worth it anymore. (not because they can change their names)

[Alarial]

I guess that's all I want to see:

1. More ways to actually interact and develop friendships with the other players (beyond the people that transferred from FF11 with me).

2. Some feeling that what I'm doing in a fight matters (que pictures of 300 people spamming attack animations at KB fate).

I'm not asking for these to be solved right now, I'm just pointing out differences that to me, give a substantially decreased feeling of connection to my character and the game.

[Artifact]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with community. There is, however, something wrong with this twisted notion that some former XI players have that "community" only existed in XI. That other games somehow lacked a sense of community, simply by virtue of being different from XI. That somehow, instances destroy community. That somehow, not having 24-hour pops destroy community (when many MMOs do). That somehow, not having punishing mechanics designed to slow player progress at every turn to increase revenue somehow destroys community (again, these MMOs do).

We've seen this spouted constantly, consistently, for years. Its a complete facility, however, tainted by bias towards a single game. That some XI fanboy could honestly say with open breath that WoW has no sense of community: that the legions of guilds that consistently meet IRL - that the couples that have met and eventually married - that those do not constitute a worthy form of "community" simply by not being XI makes me about as sick as a E-issue potentially could.

Now you've got people crying about being worried that XIV won't have a sense of community for this reason and that reason. I've had plenty of community thus far in XIV, just like I had in WoW, Rift, AoC, TERA, GW2 and XI. Just like I'll have in the next MMO I choose to play.

Absolutely pathetic.

I don't log on and see what anyone else is doing. I used to get on other MMO's just to say what's up and see if I could help or jump in.
Now it's all about me, which is convenient as well. I just know I won't feel a great need or connection to the game to continue playing after I get so far.

Shitty to keep using XI as an example, but after my main core of "friends" stopped playing, my playtime faded to nothing. It will be interesting to see where my character is in a year.

[Achitophel]

Because Arch has never experienced it, it clearly doesn't exist.

lol?

The opposite also rings true: because Arch enjoyed it in XI, it must be the best or only.

loooool. Get back to your pulpit, quickly!

The millions of players in other games having a smashing time clearly don't know what they've missed.

Who said that?

Damn, and those 3 new entrants to my FC from teaming up on random FATE bosses were so cool, too. I guess they're an illusion or something.

lol

This thread isn't that bad, I just forgot that Arch, aka. Mr. Timeout, was here shitting it up.

What is wrong with you, do you think?

[Achitophel]

pretty sure ffxi was the same.

Who was talking about FFXI? I wasn't.

Do you think FATE parties promote teamwork or interaction? That's question.

[Achitophel]

Perhaps YOU are the problem. Your party quiet? Then break the ice. It's almost like....real life social interactions. It's very easy for me to make friends even in /sh (god forbid, right) because I have a positive (and often sarcastic) tone in creating and continuing conversations past the general "Hello" introduction.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the problem, but okay.

[Achitophel]

Guys listen... You're just old... Old men (and women?) The game isn't holding you back from being sociable, you just don't remember how to make friends or maybe you really don't even care to. The game has to the tools for you to do so, you're just not forced to. Some of you want to be forced. Force yourselves. Otherwise, just quit MMOs b/c you're probably too old anyways.

You're not motivated to, that's kind of the point of the thread.

[Achitophel]

The game doesn't accommodate enough social interaction yet.

No, apparently this is wrong, everything is fine. If you don't think so, it's just cause you love FFXI (???).

[Gokulo]

Five posts. Nice.

[Achitophel]

I was gonna go for six, but I think you all got the point.

Assumption junction, what's your function?

[arus2001]

I feel like the only reason hub cities arose in XI was because doing shit on your own was typically too difficult or not worth the time to tackle solo. In turn, XIV doesn't so much need that kind of hub because if you need EXP, you don't have flag up for hours and wait for the perfect party. As well, I feel crafting is a lot more accessible than XI's version, so that's something to do to kill time, too. I'm sure there'll come a point where people gravitate toward a certain endgame spot since it's closest to the best FATE chains or whatever, but assuming people bother to try to make friends or use search functions, most other basic needs can be handled. As is, the cities can be annoying enough trying to click on the retainer bells and various NPCs due to crowding. I'd really hate to see what's essentially dividing by 3 right now and clumping it all into one giant mess. Plus I'd kill for every town to have a node solely to put you by a board/bell instead of forcing 15+ second runs.

[Lucavi]

I guess that's all I want to see:

1. More ways to actually interact and develop friendships with the other players (beyond the people that transferred from FF11 with me).

2. Some feeling that what I'm doing in a fight matters (que pictures of 300 people spamming attack animations at KB fate).

1) Explain. Give a suggestion here. Aside from instancing every FATE (or public quest in any game) so that you can be a special butterfly along with perhaps 5 other people, I see not much they can do. They already have defense, offense, collectable and boss-slaying FATES. Aside from combining all of that into a single amalgamation, I can't see much more being done. You don't feel special because you're not alone or in a small group. Raids are what you want, then, in order to feel special and foster cooperation. See below.

2) Do Primal Hard modes, or wait until 2.1 and do Primal Extreme modes. If you don't cooperate, you die. A lot.

Edit: And what do you know, Arch got yet another time out? Time Out King strikes again. I swear I wasn't foreshadowing this morning.

[XaocRamuh]

Plus I'd kill for every town to have a node solely to put you by a board/bell instead of forcing 15+ second runs.

Hopefully they will have something like this once housing comes out. At the very least have something close to what they have now with moving between Retainer and Marketboard, but substantially less people in the zone due to Housing mechanics.

[Alarial]

1) Explain. Give a suggestion here. Aside from instancing every FATE (or public quest in any game) so that you can be a special butterfly along with perhaps 5 other people, I see not much they can do. They already have defense, offense, collectable and boss-slaying FATES. Aside from combining all of that into a single amalgamation, I can't see much more being done. You don't feel special because you're not alone or in a small group. Raids are what you want, then, in order to feel special and foster cooperation. See below.

2) Do Primal Hard modes, or wait until 2.1 and do Primal Extreme modes. If you don't cooperate, you die. A lot.

Edit: And what do you know, Arch got yet another time out? Time Out King strikes again. I swear I wasn't foreshadowing this morning.

Perhaps we'll see a larger need to talk/cooperate/communicate with players we don't already know as content gets harder. As for suggestions? Perhaps an option to "filter party members the duty finder selects based on those on your server", perhaps some more quests that require you to talk/communicate/work with other players (beyond automatically being paired with them and teleported to your objective)..

Also, relax a bit, not every conversation has to be heart attack inducing.

[Lucavi]

Perhaps we'll see a larger need to talk/cooperate/communicate with players we don't already know as content gets harder. As for suggestions? Perhaps an option to "filter party members the duty finder selects based on those on your server", perhaps some more quests that require you to talk/communicate/work with other players (beyond automatically being paired with them and teleported to your objective)..

I'm trying to go back and figure out what socialized content in XI was so difficult that it required communication with strangers to accomplish. Besieged wasn't that tough. Campaigns weren't so bad. I suppose securing a pop claim was rough, but most communication between persons was trash talk when the MPKs flowed... Perhaps Ballista? Brenner?

And trust me, no heart attacks are occurring, I assure you.

[Deadgye]

I don't know how you managed to be a part of exp parties without communicating with everyone. Were you some miraculous wonder child who just sent random invites to people, who all just so happened to accept with no question, then proceeded to utilize telepathy to move to a camp, and then spent a few hours without talking or coordinating at all? Not to mention the idle chit chat when one or two members needed to afk for wc/smoke/food/etc.

Not that I'm trying to support his argument, but damn man your memory is fucked. It's like you didn't even play early FFXI.

--------------

Also in regards to FFXIV, I figured out an interesting way to increase immersion in game ten fold, while simultaneously making it harder. I played for half an hour with my hud gone via pressing scroll lock. I was mostly just exploring places that were way over my level, and I only did a couple of solo battles, but it was... interesting. Coerthas Central Highlands looked and felt amazing doing that.

[SephYuyX]

Did you break out a quill and papyrus to do your cartography?
That will immerse you fast.

[Deadgye]

Did you break out a quill and papyrus to do your cartography?
That will immerse you fast.

I actually ended up memorizing the topography of the area really fast since I was looking around me instead of at a map.

[Lucavi]

I don't know how you managed to be a part of exp parties without communicating with everyone. Were you some miraculous wonder child who just sent random invites to people, who all just so happened to accept with no question, then proceeded to utilize telepathy to move to a camp, and then spent a few hours without talking or coordinating at all? Not to mention the idle chit chat when one or two members needed to afk for wc/smoke/food/etc.

Not that I'm trying to support his argument, but damn man your memory is fucked. It's like you didn't even play early FFXI.

Wait, we're counting XP parties as communication in XI? You mean, "distortion to blizzard or freeze" levels of communication ala 4/2004, AKA when I bought the game and began playing? I communicate more than that today using the DF in dungeon runs.

I figured we were eschewing obvious, brain-dead forms of "communication", but if you want to cater to the lowest common denominator, then sure, that's communication.

I do the same "communication" now that I did then - bullshitting with my party and my LS while grinding out the lesser of enjoyable things. You call "communicating" with your party during a grinding session of crabs at the dunes somehow more of a thing than "communicating" with your party during a grinding session in Brayflops? Why? What's the difference aside from Flops having actual pulls that are sometimes communicated, boss fights that are communicated and gear drops that are sometimes communicated. Why does XI's consist of more "mandatory" communication than ARR's?

Of course people talked in XI. Jesus. Don't be so literal. But the purists are attempting to cover both entire games with a massive paintbrush: XI as this wonderful world of communication and strategy and ARR as a brain-dead button mash devoid of any form of spoken word. I'm simply calling bullshit.

[Karbuncle]

I don't think theres a single party i joined in FFXI that lasted more than 15 minutes where people did not begin to converse or talk about something, or just idle chitchat and discussion... Some form of topic conversation.

in FFXIV, its not really so much the players not wanting to talk, its the fact the combat/etc is so fast-paced and you're constantly moving and needing to damage or get out of AoE range or something that there is no room for idle discussion in most situations. Outside of when you wipe and people call you noobs and ragequit. Now, in one of my dungeons there was a spot "congrats" After someone won a lot, and I do believe at one point we discussed where we go next or something or another, occasionally we'd discuss battle strategy, but not much of it lead to forming any connection with said players... Just "Taking care of business" and done.

But its not always like that and I'll admit, I've already made 3 acquaintances... I won't say friends cause i can hardly consider them such as of yet, but one has asked for help with a dungeon here or there and i gladly helped, so I imagine we could become friends with time. But for the most part, the only people i have any discussion with in game are the people i knew before i started playing, or the friends of friends etc.

So its not like FFXIV Is devoid of social interaction, its just mostly irrelevant until 35+ or when leveling a second/third job where Quests are dried up, and even then its still luck of the draw when it comes to the people you meet just like it was in FFXI, but FFXIV is quicker and theres a lot less room for idle chat unless its between chocobo'ing to the nearest FATE.

So its not like FFXI Was the golden age of interaction, it just had more forced socialization, where as FFXIV is ridiculously solo friendly to the point its not even worth finding out theres a party option until you're forced too in your first dungeon... so for a long time it pretty much feels like a solo game with some Chat features.

...... What i'm getting at is FFXIV could do a better job of reminding us we're in an MMO with other people who we should interact with, cause most people need a kick in their ass to socialize lol. So its not bad, but it could be better. Of course it could cause the games only a week old, I'm sure this entire thing will come to pass with time.