Something lost when making game so easy/accommodating?

[Siatdiat]

I've had a drg afk in the middle of Ifrit and I've tanked the entire Totorak on my archer, because the tank was utter shit. They have caught up.

Ifrit and totorak and "caught up" have nothing to do with each other.

Also, why do people keep talking about the game has no community? It's been live for a whole week... So no shit. Even then, that claim isn't true. Most people on legacy servers know each other, there is some community on legacy servers.

[Deadgye]

So you weren't saying here that you plan to avoid leveling lancer to get blood for blood? Also it isn't a 25% boost to damage it's 30%. I linked it for you right there and you are still confused. I meant cross class abilitys when I said unique job abilities, maybe slightly confusing but I feel it was pretty obvious from my initial posts.

Why would I not look forward to doing something if I don't plan on doing it? I said I'll be trying my best to put it off for as long as possible; getting a class to 34 isn't some simple quick and easy thing.

Blood for blood is not a 30% boost in damage. Read the small print on that site carefully. It's only 30% if you're a lancer main and have the trait "Enhanced blood for blood". Admittedly I also had the wrong percent: It's only a 20% dmg increase.

And no, it isn't obvious when you say it immediately after asking if I don't plan to go bard and instead stay archer.

[Alkimi]

I think my view is just colored by being WHM, where the only remotely necessary cross-class ability is Swiftcast. Surecast situationally if you're taking add hate.

Yep, I have those 2 and Virus since it's instant-cast and why not. The 15% STR down is actually more potent than you would think.

[Siatdiat]

Why would I not look forward to doing something if I don't plan on doing it? I said I'll be trying my best to put it off for as long as possible; getting a class to 34 isn't some simple quick and easy thing.

Blood for blood is not a 30% boost in damage. Read the small print on that site carefully. It's only 30% if you're a lancer main and have the trait "Enhanced blood for blood". Admittedly I also had the wrong percent: It's only a 20% dmg increase.

And no, it isn't obvious when you say it immediately after asking if I don't plan to go bard and instead stay archer.

DOH... Yeah, not used to that site didn't realize every skill is listed at its main class strength at lvl 50. My bad! Still unsure what you mentioned first time about an ability that decreases your damage by 20%, maybe it's just too late/early...

[Deadgye]

Mage's Ballad and Army's Paeon, two of the bard only abilities, reduce bard damage output by 20% while active. Understand completely about the two late/early, I'm surpised I can even complete quests in game right now.

[Siatdiat]

Mage's Ballad and Army's Paeon, two of the bard only abilities, reduce bard damage output by 20% while active. Understand completely about the two late/early, I'm surpised I can even complete quests in game right now.

Wow that is pretty lame then actually. I wonder what level ballad matters? I never run out of mp in ACN/SCH. Bard in my group asked if I needed it and I said no, now I see why they were happy.

[Achitophel]

This is so insanely true. I kinda pop a vessel sometimes when people talk about WoW endgame being "easier" than FFXI. Vanilla FFXI endgame fights came down to two strategies. 1. stand at the feet, cure through shit. 2. kite while range dps beat the crap out of it.

What made ffxi "hard" was the punishment of waiting 3 hours for a mob to pop that you had to try to spam without aggroing adds.

Killing nidhogg wasn't as satisfying as claiming nidhogg. Which required one button.

Getting a ridill wasn't an achievement because it was a hard boss to kill, it was an achievement because you managed to claim the stupid mob enough times that rng mechanics finally dropped the stupid thing.

I am so thankful that FFXIV went the more active WoW-style fighting, where you actually have to pay attention to what's going on around you. Yes it is easier to get to doing the fights, but the fights are a lot more interactive.

Absolutely, but something that FFXI had, partially through that, was a sense of community. I hope this game can recreate THAT, using other means. That might be actually be "innovative".

[Achitophel]

Even then, that claim isn't true. Most people on legacy servers know each other, there is some community on legacy servers.

Because these are people I've killed Mog King with, they're people that helped me out with my PLD AF body, etc etc. I hope you see where I'm going with this.

[Siatdiat]

Because these are people I've killed Mog King with, they're people that helped me out with my PLD AF body, etc etc. I hope you see where I'm going with this.

I hope you saw where I went with current game being around for a week.

[ejact]

I am not looking forward to playing a class I have absolutely no interest in (lancer) all the way to 34 just for two abilities. I will be mc.gimpy who doesn't have invigorate and blood for blood on my ranger for as long as I possible can, hopefully making up for it with my smarts and adaptability. Also my stupid shit that works amazingly well for no damn reason, like during toto-rak when I managed to find a spot where I apparently can't be posioned by those ochu things.

Well dam I sure do hate having free 400 TP on a 2 minute cooldown and an ability that increases damage done every 80 seconds. I'm sure smarts can make up for not having those types of abilities.

[Achitophel]

I hope you saw where I went with current game being around for a week.

So that would be a 'no'. Coolio.

Those things are no longer things I would need to do with people on the server.

[Siatdiat]

So that would be a 'no'. Coolio.

Those things are no longer things I would need to do with people on the server.

No I get it. Regardless, there will be new shit going on where people will form a community since rerelease.

All the people who think the game needs to have ridiculous bottlenecks and cock blocks and time sinks in order to form s community, exactly how do you form relationships in life? Games shouldn't have to have game mechanics designed around assisting the socially retarded in forming friendships.

[Achitophel]

They exist to some extent now and they probably will more so later, I agree. My pet peeve is that this comes well after people are already in free companies- companies that exist either upon pre-existing foundations (irl friends, people you know from other games including 1.23, etc) or via mass invites in LL or something. I've taken to helping shouters for the very early dungeons with my cnj to try to find competent people (or people that could become competent), because otherwise we're not gonna run into each other before hydra or something. That's alls I'm saying.

I could get off on a tangent about esprit de corp and real friendship arising through facing challenges and "shared suck", but that would probably be too military of me. But whether it's the army, a sports team, a tough class, or a difficult project at work, that's the best way to make relationships. Do I want that in a game? A very soft version, sure.

[Lucavi]

Absolutely, but something that FFXI had, partially through that, was a sense of community.

Oh dear god.

I am so glad that only the players think about this "community" magical word and not the devs out to make money, because apparently this "community" and subscription totals are totally unrelated. Thank God for that.

[Artifact]

I miss Jueno. I miss Aht Urhgan. I miss Sky. I miss Sea. I guess anyone could say, "go play XI then."

That's not my point. But Jueno created a community. You needed to get there. Game content phased out. You needed to get to Aht Urhgan.
It created a sense of community. I met 100+ people trying my hardest to get to level 20 and running my ass to Jueno, trying to get a chocobo.

Now, I'm in ARR... having a blast, enjoying the incredible visuals, not remembering anything, not paying attention in fights because my TP is unlimited and I'm skill-chaining with myself (lol)... And the only people I talk to is my free company... because I applied. Otherwise, I would have never seen them in game.

Has it been a cake walk? Kinda, I wiped in stone vigil with a pick up group multiple times. Garuda was impossible to another pick up group. Beating Garuda with 3 other randoms felt good, but they play in other worlds.. I will never see them again.

There is no real sense of community (game is brand new, so not a big deal). So once people get sick of that, maybe I can log on without 1017. Cause despite my post... I still love getting on and playing.

Edit: Lucavi, community is not a magical word. It actually makes life more enjoyable unless you hate people and human connection / extreme introvert. But seeing as though you have 12,500 posts on a gaming community that would be pretty damn hypocritical.

[Slycer]

It would be nice at some point in the future if the game allowed you to "friend" people on other servers through Duty Finder, and then request that those people play together with you in Duty Finder events. You could shoot them a message, say hey let's do Ifrit, or whatever, then you both flag up for DF and click some box that says "play with available friends," and then get grouped together with other randoms filling the blanks. Logistically, this sounds entirely possible. Has anyone ever posted this as a suggestion on the official forums? I'm sure it wouldn't be a priority, but it would be great to see down the road.

[Achitophel]

Oh dear god.

I am so glad that only the players think about this "community" magical word and not the devs out to make money, because apparently this "community" and subscription totals are totally unrelated. Thank God for that.

Lol okay? I'm not a shareholder, why would I care? I'm simply making the observation. You may like playing a one player game and then running dungeons with people you'll never see again. I, however, would like a better way, while still avoiding timesinks.

[Achitophel]

It would be nice at some point in the future if the game allowed you to "friend" people on other servers through Duty Finder, and then request that those people play together with you in Duty Finder events. You could shoot them a message, say hey let's do Ifrit, or whatever, then you both flag up for DF and click some box that says "play with available friends," and then get grouped together with other randoms filling the blanks. Logistically, this sounds entirely possible. Has anyone ever posted this as a suggestion on the official forums? I'm sure it wouldn't be a priority, but it would be great to see down the road.

I hope that happens eventually, especially if there's never going to be any challenging content outside of instances, so it's not like you're losing much by having some of your favorite partymates be available only through duty finder.

[Hyan]

They could make the duty finder soooo much better through additional features. Like actually giving players better tools to build a worldless community through DF.

[ronin sparthos]

Oh dear god.

I am so glad that only the players think about this "community" magical word and not the devs out to make money, because apparently this "community" and subscription totals are totally unrelated. Thank God for that.

I see you constantly throw around subs as if it means shit in the long run. If you want to make money and keep customers, you need to give them some reason to log in some 6 months, a year or beyond. Most MMO run through their cycles fast because the games are effectively single player with multi-player elements sprinkled in. XIV is opening to glorious fanfare but once the new game sheen wears off, what is going to keep asses in seats? Saying you have 10 million players means all of shit if the majority of my interaction comes down to them lagging up the Limsa market wards.

The customer will hit the level caps solo, do a few endgame raids and then promptly quit because they have no connection to the game. If your game builds a community then it continues to be interesting, friends will get you to login and it fosters a sense of competition wherein people have no choice but to continue playing which bolsters subs for SE and ensures that you have vibrant playerbase.

I don't think anyone wants the rigidity of XI anymore but the 6month fast crash cycle for MMOs that begins with a shitload of hype then a year into the game you have server consolidations or a shift to F2P to keep the ship afloat is rooted in players having no connection to the world.