Class vs Job

[Toth]

Are the 40 level abilities offered by carby enough to make ACN more DoT based than SMN's more burst damage abilities?

[Guitarman]

that kinda bugs me on a sense of the game, why put in classes and jobs when classes are completely invalidated by jobs at a higher level. I know you can put other skills on your classes but whats the point if the jobs so far outweigh them in damage output

Yeah that's not what I was hoping to hear when I made this thread. I wanted to shoot shit from a distance, but I'll be useless unless I'm a bard. sigh. Maybe Ranger will be released at some point.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Are the 40 level abilities offered by carby enough to make ACN more DoT based than SMN's more burst damage abilities?

You get those on SMN too though so it's a very moot point.

Yeah that's not what I was hoping to hear when I made this thread. I wanted to shoot shit from a distance, but I'll be useless unless I'm a bard. sigh. Maybe Ranger will be released at some point.

Bard is still very "shoot shit". There's very little need to sing constantly.

That's the thing: outside of SCH (which is a much larger shift in playstyle) jobs play the same* as the class with at best 5 extra abilities and higher stats.
*WARs feel free to tell me to stfu.

[Lokus]

Are the 40 level abilities offered by carby enough to make ACN more DoT based than SMN's more burst damage abilities?

The only skills that an ACN has access to that SMN doesn't that helps with damage are PGL's Internal Release (crit rate +30%) and LNC's Blood for Blood (damage +30%). You're also forgetting that SMN is still just as much DoT based as ACN since Fester depends on the 3 main DoTs being applied for max damage.

Simply put, certain classes have better survivability for solo play than their job counterparts but they'll lack in party play for their assigned role.

[Enygma55]

ACN is perfectly fine if ur ok with the role of half dps/half healer.

ACN gets protect and if u equip Internal Release (stacked with Blood4Blood and Raging Strike), you can put out some serious burst dmg.
DOTS crit as they tick and Energy Drain x3 > Aetherflow > Drain x3 again. Toss in Shining Emerald to extend those buffed up dots by another 15 sec just like Garuda.

Mantra is also useful in parties for healing situations like after Primal Astral Flows or cure spamming moments.

In an 8man party setting, the healing portion most likely will be covered by the SCH/WHM but you can still contribute. ACN still has Rouse for the 40% dmg boost but on a pure DPS scale, doesnt come close to a SMN.

Pet dmg scales with gear so the better your gear, the more you can close that DPS gap between ACN and SMN.

[Guitarman]

Bard is still very "shoot shit". There's very little need to sing constantly.

That's the thing: outside of SCH (which is a much larger shift in playstyle) jobs play the same* as the class with at best 5 extra abilities and higher stats.
*WARs feel free to tell me to stfu.

Eh, I appreciate the attempt but I'll have to screw around with some classes first I guess. Monk seems pretty badass, just a ton of DoTs to put up (if i'm reading the other thread right). Spending time as a warlock in WoW gave me plenty of experience tracking dots heh.

[Seravi Edalborez]

ACN is perfectly fine if ur ok with the role of half dps/half healer

SMN can heal just as fine if not slightly better than ACN (if it should ever be required). It even gets more MND from job stone as shown below. Giving up that burst damage will never be worth it. Giving up the pet potency will never be worth it.

Arcanist
Summoner
Scholar
(wep: VIT +10)
HP 1657, MP 2933, STR 169, DEX 193, VIT 189, INT 225, MND 151, PIE 203
HP 1901, MP 3005, STR 179, DEX 204, VIT 200, INT 245, MND 161, PIE 213
HP 1901, MP 3369, STR 179, DEX 204, VIT 200, INT 225, MND 232, PIE 243

[Enygma55]

Difference in stats between ACN and SMN seem very minimal aside from 250hp. All of which can be matched with good gear.

All I'm saying is if she prefers to play on ACN, you arnt losing that much potential if you play it right. Just trying to point out the Pros. The Con is obviously not as much dmg as smn or healing power as sch but 80% of the way there is decent in my book and if it makes someone happy to play with carby, I say go for it !

[Seravi Edalborez]

Not entirely the point. It's a cascading effect. Your stats are slightly less so your summons will be slightly weaker on top of being slightly weaker because it's Carbuncle instead of (whatever)-Egi. That's a lot of "slightlys" and that adds up over time. Which is ACN/SMN's whole thing: "over time".

[Spider-Dan]

So it's pretty stupid to argue that jobs don't get abilities via leveling, since actually, they do.

What does this have to do with leveling?

I can level MRD to 50 and I will get 26 of 28 MRD traits/abilities.
I can level WAR to 50 and I will never get any new ability besides the one I got when I unlocked the job.
If I quit Tanaka-era 1.0 with a 50MRD, even though I am completely finished leveling MRD and WAR, I will need to do quests to unlock every single WAR ability.

that kinda bugs me on a sense of the game, why put in classes and jobs when classes are completely invalidated by jobs at a higher level.

Classes could have had some purpose in ARR, but unfortunately, SE put a random and arbitary cockblock on both THM and ACN by mystically excluding them from Cleric Stance. With Cleric Stance, ACN would have had a purpose: a MND-focused SCH main could switch over to ACN and pop Cleric Stance for DD-in-a-pinch.

[Toxictaru]

The Job's level is always tied to the level 30 class needed to unlock it. So once you unlock WAR at lvl 30 Marauder, you're automatically a level 30 WAR as well. If you gain exp on your WAR, it transfers over to your MRD as well.

Mostly correct. All EXP gains are attributed to the class and not the job. As such, when I was leveling past 30 on my ARC (as a BRD, obviously), all experience was showing up as "archer experience."

As has been mentioned in this thread, people who level SMN or SCH gets the other job leveled for free, because the leveling is actually being done on the class (ACN) instead of the job itself.

It is slightly confusing, but realistically, once you see it in action, its simple. I'm not 100% sure on how a class performs against a job, but I suspect someone will stat it all out later and see. I would, however, expect that a job provides more benefits than just new abilities. Otherwise I'd never play BRD and just be ARC all the time and never sing songs.

[Seravi Edalborez]

^ See post 8 of this thread

When maint is over I'll take another look. Possible (but not expecting) that Determination or other secondary stats may go up with these boosts as well.

[Berabouman]

As far as I know, classes are for soloing, jobs are for parties. So far.

And they have said they will introduce more jobs later, so Archer will probably be able to become Ranger at some point, for more shooting of shit. Than Bards at least.

(Actually WTF is up with an Archer becoming a Bard? Bows are stringed instruments now? I don't get it. It seems kind of arbitrary if you ask me.)

[Enygma55]

Only because you are associating brd to the XI version of full support. The way it plays and its lore makes sense within this game.

[Carth]

(Actually WTF is up with an Archer becoming a Bard? Bows are stringed instruments now? I don't get it. It seems kind of arbitrary if you ask me.)

As far as I know, the Archer -> Bard thing is more of a Western ideology. In a good amount of western RPGs, Bards usually have ranged attacks of some sort.

[Niiro]

I'm really wondering how far off 2nd jobs for the other classes are.

Moreso than that, how they plan to handle them in general. I assume they want to make it so every class evolves into 2 roles like ACN (would be more than a bit redundant otherwise), which leads to some very...weird prospects.

[Maaglin]

What does this have to do with leveling?
I can level MRD to 50 and I will get 26 of 28 MRD traits/abilities.
I can level WAR to 50 and I will never get any new ability besides the one I got when I unlocked the job.
If I quit Tanaka-era 1.0 with a 50MRD, even though I am completely finished leveling MRD and WAR, I will need to do quests to unlock every single WAR ability.

Do the job quests require groups? Or just lolsingleplayerforever shit? If no groups, who really cares if you get the ability inately through level up or you spend 10mins teleporting around and clicking as fast as possible.

[miokomioko]

The only things that require a group to complete are instanced dungeons and primal battles.

However, pushing through the quests, despite already being 50, is great for re-learning the classes/jobs' skill sets via level-capped fights.

[Purrrfect]

I'm really wondering how far off 2nd jobs for the other classes are.

Moreso than that, how they plan to handle them in general. I assume they want to make it so every class evolves into 2 roles like ACN (would be more than a bit redundant otherwise), which leads to some very...weird prospects.

Maybe they'll just skip ranger and let archer go to musketeer.

[miokomioko]

Maybe they'll just skip ranger and let archer go to musketeer.

Musketeer is a class, though.

I'm really curious in what direction they could go with alternate jobs to Monk/Dragoon/Warrior/etc. that would make their roles as different from each other as Scholar and Summoner. Arcanist seems to have been specifically designed to conveniently allow the class to by pried in two via Summon/Summon II pulling out completely different pets with completely different skills of their own without any Trait or other explanation. This doesn't seem possible for other classes without having a cheap way to go about it like pet skillsets.

What could they even do to other melee classes to make them function/play much more different than their existing jobs? When Dragoon only really adds a couple jump attacks to the class... what would they even have as an alternate (Samurai? Templar?) and what could they even bring to the Lancer skillset to set them apart?