The state of the economy, discussion.(inspired by reddit admittedly)

[Siatdiat]

As far as the concept of a casual player grinding fates goes... Gonna suck when they hit 50 and can't do anything. In other words the concept of that happening is beyond retarded.

As far as the game economy is concerned, the sky is falling! Maybe it's nostalgia but looking back I don't remember playing that game with a bunch of freaks sweating over some pixels.

[fussel]

Remove item durability. It sucks. It's just another annoying money sink. It's not fun. It's totally un-FinalFantasy-ish. Creating Materia is enough of a crafted item sink. Problem solved.

I'd like the idea to give every player some starting capital through the storyline quests and strongly limit gil income otherwise. In an ideal MMO world, the total number of gil should be (constant * number of players), thus no inflation and everyone gets an equal chance to make a fortune.

[shaddix]

Why would SE not be paying attention to the amount of gil in circulation? And aren't people still on the trial period?

And I don't understand the idea that battle classes should be making anyone tons of gil.

[Berabouman]

And I don't understand the idea that battle classes should be making anyone tons of gil.

I don't agree with it either, but that's not the point here. The main point is that as it stands, there is less and less gil being created, and more and more leaving (in the form of repairs, among other things) to the point in which the economy faces deflation. There has to be a way to inject more gil into the system so that this doesn't happen (but of course not so much that we experience severe inflation instead)

[shaddix]

I don't agree with it either, but that's not the point here. The main point is that as it stands, there is less and less gil being created, and more and more leaving (in the form of repairs, among other things) to the point in which the economy faces deflation. There has to be a way to inject more gil into the system so that this doesn't happen (but of course not so much that we experience severe inflation instead)

Does SE give us information regarding the current amount of gil in circulation on each server?

[Meresgi]

I don't agree with it either, but that's not the point here. The main point is that as it stands, there is less and less gil being created, and more and more leaving (in the form of repairs, among other things) to the point in which the economy faces deflation. There has to be a way to inject more gil into the system so that this doesn't happen (but of course not so much that we experience severe inflation instead)

There are a few posts on reddit showing that doing HQ levequests generate gil and push it into the economy. People are bitching and moaning about how they have to spend more time actually making money, but sorry, you can't just farm trash drops to pay off your repair bills. Go out and either do a gathering craft of make friends with someone who does, pay them for their shards, use said shards and low cost materials to HQ items for levequests, turn in HQ items and make some cash profit. Spend said profit to buy more materials/shards...hey look you're pushing gil into the economy since it originated from an NPC.

Maybe it's nostalgia but looking back I don't remember playing that game with a bunch of freaks sweating over some pixels.

And this, stop blowing ALL of your money to get gear before you have a viable form of income figured out. Figure out ways to make gil, gather materials people need and sell them, advertise your services, meld materia, craft gear for people who are lvling anew or new classes.

[Hyan]

I don't agree with it either, but that's not the point here. The main point is that as it stands, there is less and less gil being created, and more and more leaving (in the form of repairs, among other things) to the point in which the economy faces deflation. There has to be a way to inject more gil into the system so that this doesn't happen (but of course not so much that we experience severe inflation instead)

According to what data are we facing deflation? This is nothing but bullshit :/. Unless it's a bunch of "it will happen someday if SE does nothing ever"-talk.

I agree with the premise that when more people hit lvl50 than there are new characters being created/leveled to keep inserting gil into the economy said economy will shift into deflation. But where is the proof of this happening? Until this trend actually takes place, the current structure will only slow down the current inflation.

[CasualPlayer]

Started over on a brand new server to play with fiancee and friends. Some casuals in our group and a couple hard core no lifers that play all day. None of us are complaining about gil. You get more than you think doing the main quest line. I don't really see people skipping it either. The fate grinding (which I think is terrible BTW) is happening while people are leveling secondary jobs. As for how long it takes to hit 50? Took me one weekend (Sat. and Sun.) to hit 40 MIN (12hr play sessions didn't do a single MIN leve). I doubt the last 10 levels will take that much more time and the battle classes level faster. Point being that 1-2 weeks for a casual player (2hrs a day) to hit max is very reasonable.

As for the gaterhing part to make money. I don't think this game was ever designed for people to be notoriously rich like everybody was from 1.0 (6.7M sitting on my legacy char for example). Right now everyone is leveling battle and crafting classes so gatherers are getting fucking paid. Great damage is significant however. If not for every stone I pluck out of the earth (even trash shit like iron ore is selling for more than you can buy it from a vendor.....) giving me so much cash I would really be feeling the effects of gear damage.

Once the market settles and people get over the craze of getting their first job or two to 50 everyone is going to start leveling the DoH and DoL classes in some capacity. Then the game will become what it was meant to be. You're not really supposed to be using the AH for anything in this game other than to be lazy. You should be able to make most shit yourself or at least be able to support yourself through leves. The level 40+ craft leves give a very nice boost to income when you HQ (which is easy as hell to do pre 50) and you get 6 a day. You can HQ the GC supply shit too.

People are looking at the AH right now as their only means of gearing up and then adding repair cost to that expense which isn't how the game is supposed to be played.

tl;dr
Economy is fine, if you're smart go grab a pickax sledgehammer or wheat thresher and enjoy taking everyone else's money while you can.

Also I realize there are people just doing nothing but fates all the way to 50 but this is definitely a minority of people.

[Spider-Dan]

Kill snurbles, collect tufts, sell tufts.

Unless you're talking about NPCing said tufts, you realize this destroys gil, not creates it, right?

We're not talking about creating money in your wallet, bro.

[Ksandra]

Unless you're talking about NPCing said tufts, you realize this destroys gil, not creates it, right?

We're not talking about creating money in your wallet, bro.

Requoting because this needs to be stressed in that too many people are talking about gil rotating, not the creating and destroying of gil.

[arus2001]

Why would SE not be paying attention to the amount of gil in circulation? And aren't people still on the trial period?

And I don't understand the idea that battle classes should be making anyone tons of gil.

My take on it is a combat class should be able to generate enough cash doing their thing to both pay repairs and modestly grow their funds so they can upgrade their gear or even start investing in crafts. Mad gil should ideally and obviously come from crafting and gathering, but even those suffer from durability expenses. I said it earlier and someone else did, too, but seriously just nix the item durability system. The masochists may feel it justified as a death penalty, but its concept as an RMT deterrent is just one of those cases of hassling players to snub some farmers.

[Waraji]

Requoting because this needs to be stressed in that too many people are talking about gil rotating, not the creating and destroying of gil.

Something the Entirety of the Wall of Text / Life Story of CasualPlayer, forgets to notice.

[Krandor]

Unless you're talking about NPCing said tufts, you realize this destroys gil, not creates it, right?

We're not talking about creating money in your wallet, bro.

It started in response to comments about making money on a legacy server as opposed to a new one, where ATM plenty of gil is in circulation. On Excal tufts go for 1k per on the market as opposed to vendoring for 20.

[Meresgi]

Requoting because this needs to be stressed in that too many people are talking about gil rotating, not the creating and destroying of gil.

There are a few posts on reddit of HQing leve items for profit in gil from NPC turn ins, while only a few people doing this won't generate any gil a whole slew of crafters doing this, and then purchasing HQ materials from other people off the AH will in turn help the economy I think.

[Teknique]

On my server (gilgamesh) we had a crafter who was giving out 17.5k gil for each aqueous whetstone (purchasable with 125 philospy tomes) I am perfectly fine with giving up some upgrades for that amount of money

[Toxictaru]

The argument that crafting is the way to generate money is somewhat flawed, at least at this point in the game. If everyone has to level a craft or two to actually make money, then there will be a flood of crafters and it will dilute the market. If everyone has GSM leveled, and are trying to profit from it, undercutting will be a major issue. In fact, it already is. Any time I list an HQ item it is undercut significantly within minutes. My stuff doesn't sell as a result.

Now, I'm aware that other games such as WoW functionally require you to level two professions, you don't need them to make money. More often than not people choose them for bonuses and not cash. They have options such as dailies to generate money, FFXIV doesn't.

HQ leves are an option, but the effort spent getting there almost outweighs the benefit. I still think work needs to be done. By not allowing people to undercut as heavily, part of then problem could be reduced. There are major problems with that too, but its an idea.

[Meresgi]

Honestly the AH system needs to be like FFXI. The method that people use to undercut is so fucking downs. "Oh you got something up for 3k? Well I want to sell fast so mine is gonna be...200g!"

Arnt dailies supposed to be put in with the 1st patch? I think that the chests in dungeons at 50 should be rewarding the 500g alladan pieces, maybe 2 per chest for EVERYONE and not a random person.

[Raldo]

Honestly the AH system needs to be like FFXI.

People really need to think these sorts of statements through before they say them. How would you implement such a system?

First, you have the different stack size issue. Do you force people to only put up 1 or 99, like FFXI did? I can think of a few ways to solve this problem behind the scenes, but they are a bit complex.

Second, you have the HQ/NQ issue. It's going to be a bit of a mess in the menus if you have to specify HQ/NQ, and it's going to flood the market ward display if you show HQs and NQs as separate items. Solvable, but not pretty. If someone has specified NQ, but some nutcase has posted an HQ for the lowest price, do you go ahead and give them an NQ anyway?

Third, arguably the hardest one, how do you deal with materia? Do you just prevent anyone from selling things that are pre-melded? Do you show each individual materia'd item as a separate market ward entry?

If they made the system like FFXI, the market wards would be an ungodly mess. Each system has its downfalls, but I'm not going to fault SE for picking the one that makes it easiest on the buyer.

[CasualPlayer]

Something the Entirety of the Wall of Text / Life Story of CasualPlayer, forgets to notice.

Learn2read.

I said the game will take the need for vast reserves of gil away in time. Stop being simple.

Raldo,

We could buy x amount of items from a stack of 99 in 1.0.

[Raldo]

We could buy x amount of items from a stack of 99 in 1.0.

You could also see the prices of everything, which invalidates the point of my entire post (responding to the argument that we shouldn't show prices to people because undercutting).

Don't get me wrong, I would love the ability to buy specific amounts of things in ARR (both from a buying and selling standpoint), but that doesn't really have anything to do with the topic.