The state of the economy, discussion.(inspired by reddit admittedly)

[Meresgi]

People really need to think these sorts of statements through before they say them. How would you implement such a system?

First, you have the different stack size issue. Do you force people to only put up 1 or 99, like FFXI did? I can think of a few ways to solve this problem behind the scenes, but they are a bit complex.

Second, you have the HQ/NQ issue. It's going to be a bit of a mess in the menus if you have to specify HQ/NQ, and it's going to flood the market ward display if you show HQs and NQs as separate items. Solvable, but not pretty. If someone has specified NQ, but some nutcase has posted an HQ for the lowest price, do you go ahead and give them an NQ anyway?

Third, arguably the hardest one, how do you deal with materia? Do you just prevent anyone from selling things that are pre-melded? Do you show each individual materia'd item as a separate market ward entry?

If they made the system like FFXI, the market wards would be an ungodly mess. Each system has its downfalls, but I'm not going to fault SE for picking the one that makes it easiest on the buyer.

HQ/NQ items require a check box. Stacksize would be 1 or 99, honestly why not? Buy 5 things of 1 if you need them for something specific, otherwise you need bulk for crafts most likely.

As far as the melded materia, that would indeed be a different issue as it would require you to check off more boxes based on the materia type you want melded into it. You could make it so melded armor couldn't be sold, and instead require people to seek out a crafter to meld said materia to gear they bought, but that's a hassle people won't enjoy since unlike WoW's gem system you can just socket the stuff yourself.

Could implement a checkbox for each materia type, but i'm not sure how many types there are? Not in terms of xI, xII, xIII but in terms of "Crit rating, str, w/e". Depending on how many types, you could create a search filter based on that.

[Ksandra]

Learn2read.

I said the game will take the need for vast reserves of gil away in time. Stop being simple.

Ya, but that's not what people care about.

You said on your new server you got a decent amount of gil through the main storyline. Great. That can only be done once. And once repairs take all that money away, what are you going to do?

A friend was telling me, some people are creating new characters to do the story until lvl ten then bringing the gil over to their main. Rinse, repeat.

Really the game shouldn't be making people do that.

[Ksandra]

HQ/NQ items require a check box. Stacksize would be 1 or 99, honestly why not? Buy 5 things of 1 if you need them for something specific, otherwise you need bulk for crafts most likely.

Honestly, they severely reduced the amount of ingredients you need in a craft. There are very few recipes that 99 is a good idea.

Should reduce stack sizes to like 10 or 20 tbh.

[Meresgi]

Saw this on reddit, I havnt done this leve personally so not sure what all goes into it.



1.2k for a turn in, you get 6 leves per day allotment correct?

Also not sure on that, but some give you the option for bonus turn ins, not eating up that leve allotment.

[Raldo]

Saw this on reddit, I havnt done this leve personally so not sure what all goes into it.

Yeah, most (all?) of the crafting leves are like that, but you have to blow your own materials to do it. Depending on where the materials came from, that may or may not be a gil gain.

If you were really hard up for cash, you could grind those for gil at lv50 I guess, but without the exp incentive, that would be boring as hell.

[Meresgi]

Yeah, most (all?) of the crafting leves are like that, but you have to blow your own materials to do it. Depending on where the materials came from, that may or may not be a gil gain.

If you were really hard up for cash, you could grind those for gil at lv50 I guess, but without the exp incentive, that would be boring as hell.

Guess it all depends, you can either spend the time to farm them, or pay for them, as crafters will want HQ mats to make more money. As for other people they can farm the HQ mats to sell to said crafters to make gil themselves. Circle of life!

[shaddix]

Ya, but that's not what people care about.

You said on your new server you got a decent amount of gil through the main storyline. Great. That can only be done once. And once repairs take all that money away, what are you going to do?

A friend was telling me, some people are creating new characters to do the story until lvl ten then bringing the gil over to their main. Rinse, repeat.

Really the game shouldn't be making people do that.

Why don't they craft or gather then? Do they feel they are responsible for gil creation or just gil in their pocket?

And I have yet to see anyone post the numbers from SE showing gil in circulation decreasing.

[samalis]

Ya, but that's not what people care about.

You said on your new server you got a decent amount of gil through the main storyline. Great. That can only be done once. And once repairs take all that money away, what are you going to do?

A friend was telling me, some people are creating new characters to do the story until lvl ten then bringing the gil over to their main. Rinse, repeat.

Really the game shouldn't be making people do that.

I forget, how much do you even get for doing story until 10?

[Waraji]

Learn2read.

Thefuq you talking about? You're entire post, like Ksandra eloquently versed, was all about you leveling a new character on a new server, of which frankly will get to see absolutely 0% of the core issues involved in this conversation. Further into your post you go into argueing that making gil isn't so hard as long as you pickup a craft or gathering class to "generate" income from selling shit on the AH, when its been discussed and outline as a complete gil sink when you take away the reality that rotating gil from one character to another while taxing said amount, as a Net Loss for the entirety of the server reserve.

I forget, how much do you even get for doing story until 10?

It's about 30-50k after doing some repairs every couple of levels. (This is getting allagan pieces at every quest, and buying NPC equipment every 7-10 levels)

[Ksandra]

Why don't they craft or gather then?

because that doesn't generate gil?

[shaddix]

because that doesn't generate gil?

Why do you have to generate it? Just take it from other players. Your statement that the game is making them roll alts to make gil is false. We have no idea if gil is being created or destroyed overall.

[Ksandra]

Why do you have to generate it? Just take it from other players. Your statement that the game is making them roll alts to make gil is false. We have no idea if gil is being created or destroyed overall.

Because that is the whole point of the thread.


According to people on new servers, more gil is going out than is being generated, and people at 50 are losing more money to repairs than they can generate.

I am not saying it's true btw. I am on a legacy server which already has a huge influx of gil from 1.0 so it's harder to say.

What I AM saying is that talking about circulating gil doesn't address the problem/question of the thread.

[shaddix]

Because that is the whole point of the thread.


According to people on new servers, more gil is going out than is being generated, and people at 50 are losing more money to repairs than they can generate.

I am not saying it's true btw. I am on a legacy server which already has a huge influx of gil from 1.0 so it's harder to say.

What I AM saying is that talking about circulating gil doesn't address the problem/question of the thread.

There is no problem in this thread, it's people bitching about being poor and blaming the server economy when they have no idea wtf about the server economy.

[Ksandra]

I haven't read the whole thread.

oh.

[Meresgi]

because that doesn't generate gil?

But crafting will generate gil if you do the levesystem. NPCs giving you gil means new gil is being put into the system. Also Alladin pieces being vendored = new gil as well though small amounts if only 8-9 tin

[Waraji]

The gil generated by the NPC's only generate gil into the system if you put mats into the delivery item that you yourself gathered. This turns into a time in/gil out ratio that frankly doesn't match the repair rate/gil for the Average player.

The only time this works out exceptionally, is if you completely farm out these items for the specific leves, depending on how the leves rotate for that specific craft/level you're doing. Then hashing out the sub materials if required, all quick synthed, and then the final delivery material. waiting for a stack of leves would be best I would think, but there is only so much inventory space. You would need more time put in if you expect to go for the HQ deliveries. It's not a bad way to generate gil, but it does take time, and planning if you really want to get the optimal returns.

[Purrrfect]

People really need to think these sorts of statements through before they say them. How would you implement such a system?

First, you have the different stack size issue. Do you force people to only put up 1 or 99, like FFXI did? I can think of a few ways to solve this problem behind the scenes, but they are a bit complex.

Second, you have the HQ/NQ issue. It's going to be a bit of a mess in the menus if you have to specify HQ/NQ, and it's going to flood the market ward display if you show HQs and NQs as separate items. Solvable, but not pretty. If someone has specified NQ, but some nutcase has posted an HQ for the lowest price, do you go ahead and give them an NQ anyway?

Third, arguably the hardest one, how do you deal with materia? Do you just prevent anyone from selling things that are pre-melded? Do you show each individual materia'd item as a separate market ward entry?

If they made the system like FFXI, the market wards would be an ungodly mess. Each system has its downfalls, but I'm not going to fault SE for picking the one that makes it easiest on the buyer.

Making the market for non-gear pieces work like XI would be quite easy. The sellers simply put up their stack of W items for X price per item, and the buyers say 'I'll pay up to Y per item, for up to Z items". The game pulls the lowest items from the various stacks priced with X<=Y until it runs out of items or has pulled Z. They could either have the difference go to seller (all bought items are paid at full Y price and the seller makes an unexpected bonus) or the buyer (all items are bought at their posted price and the buyer ends up getting some items for less than Y). HQ would need to be listed separately (already is for listing, the server just merges it; would add more looking for buyers), and could be as easy as just a HQ checkbox using the existing market interface. Gear with materia is more complicated to do, might have to be a separate listing for each materia variation but only show the ones on the market of course.

[Raldo]

Yeah, I just didn't want to write all that out. Though, that would force SE to allow partial-stack buying (please implement it SE).

[CasualPlayer]

Started over on a brand new server to play with fiancee and friends. Some casuals in our group and a couple hard core no lifers that play all day. None of us are complaining about gil. You get more than you think doing the main quest line. I don't really see people skipping it either. The fate grinding (which I think is terrible BTW) is happening while people are leveling secondary jobs. As for how long it takes to hit 50? Took me one weekend (Sat. and Sun.) to hit 40 MIN (12hr play sessions didn't do a single MIN leve). I doubt the last 10 levels will take that much more time and the battle classes level faster. Point being that 1-2 weeks for a casual player (2hrs a day) to hit max is very reasonable.

As for the gaterhing part to make money. I don't think this game was ever designed for people to be notoriously rich like everybody was from 1.0 (6.7M sitting on my legacy char for example). Right now everyone is leveling battle and crafting classes so gatherers are getting fucking paid. Great damage is significant however. If not for every stone I pluck out of the earth (even trash shit like iron ore is selling for more than you can buy it from a vendor.....) giving me so much cash I would really be feeling the effects of gear damage.

Once the market settles and people get over the craze of getting their first job or two to 50 everyone is going to start leveling the DoH and DoL classes in some capacity. Then the game will become what it was meant to be. You're not really supposed to be using the AH for anything in this game other than to be lazy. You should be able to make most shit yourself or at least be able to support yourself through leves. The level 40+ craft leves give a very nice boost to income when you HQ (which is easy as hell to do pre 50) and you get 6 a day. You can HQ the GC supply shit too.

People are looking at the AH right now as their only means of gearing up and then adding repair cost to that expense which isn't how the game is supposed to be played.

tl;dr
Economy is fine, if you're smart go grab a pickax sledgehammer or wheat thresher and enjoy taking everyone else's money while you can.

Also I realize there are people just doing nothing but fates all the way to 50 but this is definitely a minority of people.

There. I bolded it for you guys. That is the part about making/generating money enough to be able to sustain yourself. It's done through levequests. It's called farming.

Don't buy the mats off the AH.....go mine or harvest them yourself. If the drop off point is on the other side of Eorza don't teleport take a chocoporter the first time then set your home point there or favorite destination.

This isn't rocket science....

[CasualPlayer]

The real point of my WoT is that you SHOULD NOT NEED gil in this game for hardly anything and it should be very easy to get gil for the few times you actually do.