Why do people argue SMN has low DPS?

[Toth]

So is SMN good for the hard versions of the primals?

Also, wouldn't Fester be considered Burst damage?

[miokomioko]

Fester is sorta' burst damage, but that's assuming you already have Bio/Bio II/Miasma on your target and have 1+ Aetherflow up... and if none of that is the case, you're looking at:

Miasma > Bio II > Bio > Aetherflow > Fester

Which is not very quick to execute... plus Fester has a 10-second cooldown so the rest of your charges will have to go to Bane or Energy Drain and maybe another Fester 10 sec down the line if your DoTs are still up.


I think Bane needs an AoE range increase pretty bad. Adds have to be suckling on your target's teets for Bane to hit them.

[Deuce]

So is SMN good for the hard versions of the primals?

I've not taken my SMN into too many of the hard versions besides Ifrit; however, it went well for that fight and was probably on par with the other DPS. In 4-man and 8-man boss fights SMN does much better then it does clearing through a 4-man dungeon. Garuda may be more challenging for SMN because of the plumes, but I can't say for certain because I've never tried it myself, likewise with Titan.

Fortunately, pets have super high defense and take very little damage from AoEs, so positioning them wherever you want in these fights isn't much of an issue. Occasionally you may have to use Sustain to keep their HP topped off, but for the most part you don't have to pay that much attention to them. Sometimes you'll have to re-"place" them if they're hit with a knockback move, but it isn't difficult. I just wish pet commands wouldn't be locked out while casting.

I think Bane needs an AoE range increase pretty bad. Adds have to be suckling on your target's teets for Bane to hit them.

Agreed, a 5y radius is way too small and at the very least it should be at least double, because even if trash are slightly spread Bane will barely hit half of them even when targeting the center-most mob.

[zsuper]

I've not taken my SMN into too many of the hard versions besides Ifrit; however, it went well for that fight and was probably on par with the other DPS. In 4-man and 8-man boss fights SMN does much better then it does clearing through a 4-man dungeon. Garuda may be more challenging for SMN because of the plumes, but I can't say for certain because I've never tried it myself, likewise with Titan.

Fortunately, pets have super high defense and take very little damage from AoEs, so positioning them wherever you want in these fights isn't much of an issue. Occasionally you may have to use Sustain to keep their HP topped off, but for the most part you don't have to pay that much attention to them. Sometimes you'll have to re-"place" them if they're hit with a knockback move, but it isn't difficult. I just wish pet commands wouldn't be locked out while casting.



Agreed, a 5y radius is way too small and at the very least it should be at least double, because even if trash are slightly spread Bane will barely hit half of them even when targeting the center-most mob.

You can cast Tri-Disaster on Garuda as plumes spawn, which binds them and prevents them from getting in range of the rocks. DPS can completely ignore them if you do this, making AoE a null point.

[Alkar]

You can cast Tri-Disaster on Garuda as plumes spawn, which binds them and prevents them from getting in range of the rocks. DPS can completely ignore them if you do this, making AoE a null point.

The bind doesn't last forever, do they despawn after some time? That also doesn't stop the random idiot from doing an AoE and remove the bind anyway.

[Deuce]

You can cast Tri-Disaster on Garuda as plumes spawn, which binds them and prevents them from getting in range of the rocks. DPS can completely ignore them if you do this, making AoE a null point.

That's certainly something I overlooked and didn't think about.

Edit:

The bind doesn't last forever, do they despawn after some time? That also doesn't stop the random idiot from doing an AoE and remove the bind anyway.

That is also another good point, especially if you're relying on DF for Garuda runs.

[zsuper]

The bind doesn't last forever, do they despawn after some time? That also doesn't stop the random idiot from doing an AoE and remove the bind anyway.

I haven't done PUGs since the first week of the game, but you can tell them not to use any sort of AoE and they probably will listen. Probably.
They despawn 2-5 seconds after Bind ends. As long as it isn't broken early, they won't move after it wears off. If it is broken early, they may move part, but not all, of the way to their destination.

Note that sometimes, two plumes won't get hit with Tri-Disaster. I'm not sure why; I think it may be a bug where they spawn late, because it looks like all of the plumes have bind circles under them.
It's always the same two plumes, if it happens, and both always go to the same place. These can be ignored or single targeted down.

[Sephiroth]

My opinion is that SMN is awesome when you're fighting multiple mobs close together but falls short on single target DPS and when the adds are dancing around due to a shit tank. Honestly if they were on par with other DDs with single target DPS then Bane would make them seriously over powered. Problem is in a lot of boss fights you won't make much use of Bane either because the adds die fast, they're killed away from the main boss or there's no adds to begin with.

[Neviskio]

Just a quick thing guys, am I blind and I did miss in this and the acn topic, or no one is considering the 30 debuff limit? I remember the days in which wow had the debuff limit and I'm kinda here laughing at square enix failures in this regard...I mean, maybe I missed you guys talking about it, but on anything that is more than 8 players(weren't we supposed to have 24 man raids sooner or later? Am I just sleepwalking and dreamt of it?) smn is just unusable, with half other jobs.

I still remember when I considered being a warlock in wow but then remembered that dots couldn't be used and warlock was shit, ain't we in the same situation with smn if something doesn't change?XD

Also in 8 man at bahamut not knowing composition, isn't too easy to get to 30 and being at risk of capping the debuffs? I admit that I'm talking out of my ass here becauce I barely did a couple ifrits hm late and didn't bother even checking the debuffs bar...

[zsuper]

Just a quick thing guys, am I blind and I did miss in this and the acn topic, or no one is considering the 30 debuff limit? I remember the days in which wow had the debuff limit and I'm kinda here laughing at square enix failures in this regard...I mean, maybe I missed you guys talking about it, but on anything that is more than 8 players(weren't we supposed to have 24 man raids sooner or later? Am I just sleepwalking and dreamt of it?) smn is just unusable, with half other jobs.

I still remember when I considered being a warlock in wow but then remembered that dots couldn't be used and warlock was shit, ain't we in the same situation with smn if something doesn't change?XD

Also in 8 man at bahamut not knowing composition, isn't too easy to get to 30 and being at risk of capping the debuffs? I admit that I'm talking out of my ass here becauce I barely did a couple ifrits hm late and didn't bother even checking the debuffs bar...

Yeah, I don't think we're going to hit the 30 debuff limit, unless the group is stacking SMN.

I think our group (PLD, WAR, DRG, BRD, BLM, SMN, WHM, SCH) usually has 8 or 9 buffs per boss.

[Eidle]

My only beef with summoner is some encounters aren't pet friendly, 1st and last boss in aurum vale, demon wall are the few that come to mind. I don't have a parser or anything running but I think our DPS is ok, as long as our pet is up. Swiftcast negates the problem a little bit, but it's still kind of a pain.

I agree Bane range needs an increase, on the last boss of aurum vale, it would be nice if when the boss is in the center of the fruit, I cast bane, and it hits all the fruit. Sometimes I get most of the fruit sometimes I don't.

[Waraji]

demon wall are the few that come to mind.

You shouldn't be adding Aurum Vale to the slew of Endgame Content. Demon Wall, grab pet, put it on the edge of the walkway on either side at about the halfway mark, enough for it to reach the demon wall. First repel will knock it off the edge and not get hit by floor goop for the rest of the fight. This is only an observation based on fighting Titan and seeing pets just flying outside the ring after getting knocked back.

[Midnightjade]

Yeah, I don't think we're going to hit the 30 debuff limit, unless the group is stacking SMN.

I think our group (PLD, WAR, DRG, BRD, BLM, SMN, WHM, SCH) usually has 8 or 9 buffs per boss.

I was in a pickup the other day with another low-level CNJ, and noticed the boss we were fighting had 2x Aero debuff icons. Is it possible to stack multiples of the same debuff on the same mob? Not been playing long enough to know the answer. If so, stacking SMN might not work?

[Seravi Edalborez]

Each person can have their own dot on a mob. So 4 SMNs can each have Shadow Flare, Bio, Bio II, Miasma, Miasma II, and I guess Thunder all at once.

[Eidle]

You shouldn't be adding Aurum Vale to the slew of Endgame Content.

Sorry, didn't know this was end game only discussion. I just adding my thoughts on smn dps in regards to pets being part of our dps. The class is still new so people are still learning how to adapt it to encounters.

[Raldo]

Is it possible to stack multiples of the same debuff on the same mob?

Yes, however there are at least a select few debuffs that cannot stack with each other. Virus comes to mind as an exception, but I'm not 100% sure on it.

It may be that the only things that stack are DoTs, but I'm not 100% sure.

[Neviskio]

Yeah, I don't think we're going to hit the 30 debuff limit, unless the group is stacking SMN.

I think our group (PLD, WAR, DRG, BRD, BLM, SMN, WHM, SCH) usually has 8 or 9 buffs per boss.

Fair enough, not sure my friends fc considers smn shit for the "debuff as wow" reason, they might justbe clueless then.Still wondering if they'll fix it for bigger raids since wow took a fair time to recognize warlocks were unusable =P

[Raldo]

Has there been some form of actual testing/confirmation that the cap is 30, or is it simply that the UI doesn't display beyond that? I imagine such a thing would be rather difficult to test. You'd have to have a fair number of people in on your testing, and probably have to go find an unoccupied FATE boss.

[Neviskio]

Has there been some form of actual testing/confirmation that the cap is 30, or is it simply that the UI doesn't display beyond that? I imagine such a thing would be rather difficult to test. You'd have to have a fair number of people in on your testing, and probably have to go find an unoccupied FATE boss.

Think it has been confirmed since it doesn't apply the dot and gives an error, I didn't check it personally since well.. acn lvl 1, and most other classes you can ignore the thing.Will report if no one does, going to fate right now with brd D:

[Waraji]

Sorry, didn't know this was end game only discussion.

Well, I didn't mean it that way, but more to the idea that at Lv44 anything is, at best, unreliable for determining if a class will be a good DPS on anything. As how you mentioned, people are still getting used to the class. So it would be best to use a static plateau for which to measure the class, where everyone can match their variables fairly closely to test, etc., science bitch.