All Worlds Maintenance (Sep. 11)

[Ratatapa]

Speed run was the only way to get Relic in 1.0 (iirc Yoshi started the Relic quest in 1.0 ) Why cancel that

[Dngnhack]

Or just give monsters party aggro.. Doesn't make it impossible just more inconvienant.

[Ratatapa]

Or just give monsters party aggro.. Doesn't make it impossible just more inconvienant.

Still easy with a PLD make it died first then Swift +Raise before you die

[Rocl]

Speed run was the only way to get Relic in 1.0 (iirc Yoshi started the Relic quest in 1.0 ) Why cancel that

Didn't they specifically say they didn't want speed runs to be required?

Not that they currently are, but asking "why cancel that" when they said they're going to is fruitless.

Why do they do anything other than that's what they want the game to be? '=';

[Therin]

I don't see why speedruns should be considered an issue. Every game has allowed for the best geared players with the best prepared strategy to complete content faster. We're not utilizing any glitches, just bypassing pointless mobs.

I like the idea of allotting tomestone drops to fodder mobs but that would make it TOO easy.

[xopher]

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?foru...197776119&h=50

Speed runs will remain in the game (for achievement purposes), however, they will no longer be necessary to obtain equipment upgrades. Expect the reward system for these runs to change greatly.

[miokomioko]

I'm fully expecting some sort of major change to Amdapor Keep to make bypassing everything in such a manner impossible. I just hope it's not a change to the aggro mechanics, negatively affecting all other dungeons in the process.

[Therin]

They could put a couple of Doom Toads in the zone at strategic locations and that would probably stop it.

One or two draw-ins would mean the WARs probably couldn't survive a whole train anymore.

[Raldo]

I don't see why speedruns should be considered an issue. Every game has allowed for the best geared players with the best prepared strategy to complete content faster. We're not utilizing any glitches, just bypassing pointless mobs.

I like the idea of allotting tomestone drops to fodder mobs but that would make it TOO easy.

Speed runs in and of themselves are not a problem as long as everyone's on board with it, but when it becomes so commonplace that it's expected even in the duty finder, then things take a turn for the worse.

My story run for Castrum Meridianum was run with 5/8 people having already done it before and were just doing it for Tomestones. I still have no idea what the hell was going on, and it really ruined that section of things for the three of us who were new to it. I still don't even know how the magitek guns work. I imagine the same will occur when I attempt to do AK for the very first time. I'm either going to be completely clueless, or people are going to straight up leave the instance. Believe it or not, this sort of thing will cause people to stop playing the game, and that's why it should be considered a problem.

[Carth]

Speed runs in and of themselves are not a problem as long as everyone's on board with it, but when it becomes so commonplace that it's expected even in the duty finder, then things take a turn for the worse.

My story run for Castrum Meridianum was run with 5/8 people having already done it before and were just doing it for Tomestones. I still have no idea what the hell was going on, and it really ruined that section of things for the three of us who were new to it. I still don't even know how the magitek guns work. I imagine the same will occur when I attempt to do AK for the very first time. I'm either going to be completely clueless, or people are going to straight up leave the instance. Believe it or not, this sort of thing will cause people to stop playing the game, and that's why it should be considered a problem.

As a tank, I was extremely intimidated by speedrunning since I didn't know the map, and Duty Finder people always expect the tank to know the map. Only reason why I know now is because I practiced with my FC and watched videos.

So I can see this point. Speedruns aren't bad once you get used to it (I can do Wanderer's Palace with my eyes closed at this point), but it's definitely not intended to be the standard and SE will have to fix that. The repair cost reduction is a good start, but we need a reason to kill trash. Gating the boss until all trash is killed is one method, but it's also a very poor one.

As for story runs in Castrum/Praetorium, I still have no idea why speedrunners go to those areas when the other dungeons are vastly better for Tomestones. W. Palace and A. Keep take a much shorter amount of time and you don't need to be a dick to people who don't even know the concept of speedrunning at that point.

[Therin]

Speed runs in and of themselves are not a problem as long as everyone's on board with it, but when it becomes so commonplace that it's expected even in the duty finder, then things take a turn for the worse.

My story run for Castrum Meridianum was run with 5/8 people having already done it before and were just doing it for Tomestones. I still have no idea what the hell was going on, and it really ruined that section of things for the three of us who were new to it. I still don't even know how the magitek guns work. I imagine the same will occur when I attempt to do AK for the very first time. I'm either going to be completely clueless, or people are going to straight up leave the instance. Believe it or not, this sort of thing will cause people to stop playing the game, and that's why it should be considered a problem.

Well, the benefit to DF is the fact that it will piece you together in groups will people across servers who have already done the content. If it was like FFXI, and you had to form your own groups (mostly of people who hadn't done the content yet, as there were not repeatable rewards from most things), it would be virtually impossible to clear anything. I'll take the way we have it now.

The only thing I could see them changing is making speed runs harder. This way they can still be done but they are too hard for your standard DF groups. (Honestly, I figured it was already this way. Keep requires a good tank, a good DPS and if either of those aren't quick on their feet, requires a good healer as well.)

[arus2001]

Instead of "preventing" speed runs, they should just encourage people to kill stuff. They could maybe take half of the tomestones away from the boss and make individual monsters give 1-2 each or something.

This'll never happen because you'll have hardcore tryhards bitch about how people could get good gear by never killing a boss. Not much different than the insistence crafted gear has to suck because someone could just gear up by visiting the AH. While I disagree with the latter sentiment, the former is probably pushing it. I am for making trash more worthwhile, though. They could perhaps drop unique materia that does more exotic things people pine for with stat variety.

[Sephiroth]

The way it is now they may as well get rid of the dungeon and place the bosses into 3 rooms. Yoshi is probably pissed that his dev team put all that time and effort into designing the dungeon just to have it ruined by people bypassing 90% of it.

And yes he did add speed runs to 1.0 for relics but the difference there is you were racing against the clock. It makes no difference whether your AK speed run is 15 minutes or 20, the end result is the same. If you had to do AK in 15 minutes that would be an equivalent and most groups can't do that.

I like the fast tokens but the attitude of players will force them to change it. Attitudes like leaving if someone is new to it. It will cause people to leave the game and you can dismiss them as being bads but no one is an expert at dungeons the first time they run. The videos out there teach very little either, they're designed to show off rather than explain the mechanics that are going on. Like the catastrophe on the final boss, a video typically won't tell you it will only hit you if it's in your line of sight. A good party would tell you but most people are rushing so bad they jump into these fights without explaining key mechanics to new people. Then they throw a tantrum and rage leave when it goes wrong.

[Sho]

They simply shouldn't have made the final boss run give tomes, but instead made it so it gives middle-upper gear drops, comparable to AH gear. That way speed running wouldn't happen at least in that instance, but it would still be visited by players who have beaten it. Kinda dumb they did it in such a way knowing that new people getting to it would not even know wtf is going on.

[Carth]

While I agree with speedrunners being derps. You can't blame the playerbase for figuring out there is absolutely no reason to kill trash mobs, which is the biggest factor against doing a normal run. The absurd repair costs being an economy drainer only solidified Speedruns becoming commonplace.

[Lucavi]

If there's no incentive to kill trash, and nothing to prevent players from NOT killing trash, you really can't blame players for not killing trash.

Even WoW raids had a chance to drop loot from trash, and more importantly, many raids had areas that you couldn't progress through until trash was dead.

This game is young. There's plenty of time for Yosh and co. to get this mess right. It -is- a mess currently, though.

[darkepyon]

I like the fast tokens but the attitude of players will force them to change it. Attitudes like leaving if someone is new to it. It will cause people to leave the game and you can dismiss them as being bads but no one is an expert at dungeons the first time they run. The videos out there teach very little either, they're designed to show off rather than explain the mechanics that are going on. Like the catastrophe on the final boss, a video typically won't tell you it will only hit you if it's in your line of sight. A good party would tell you but most people are rushing so bad they jump into these fights without explaining key mechanics to new people. Then they throw a tantrum and rage leave when it goes wrong.

God help you if you're just fresh off the main story line. I finished the main story and opened up A-keep the other day and have yet to set foot inside. Checking youtube, I think I found maybe 1 or 2 videos that actually did a good job explaining things.

[Shenrien]

I hope they don't patch the demon wall glitch, have your tank get knocked off by repel, then your whm and one other dps willing jump off to their death, and demon wall will reset, and the last DPS can just sit there and merc him and he won't even fight back.

[Datonare]

I suppose they could introduce two more types of currency, cracked stones of philosophy and mythology. They would drop off of trash and bosses would drop the normal kind as they do now. If each piece needed both types of currency, it may work. Just thinking out loud here... I don't think there's a perfect solution for this, but I'm confident something will be done about it.

[Null]

Or you know....you could just kill him. My keep runners are almost always able to kill him before his second repel. If not then seconds after the repel just as the bugs pop it dies. No need to go out of your way and kill yourself that seems like it was take far longer for one dps to kill it.