Random Fail: your words are false

[Silenka]

Swiftcast isn't always up and fuck waiting for a hardcast.

If the healer was gonna use it they would have used it, just fucking go.

It's a dungeon boss, what are we gonna wait for recasts too?

This is how I play it, if swiftcast is up before a pull I'll definitely cast ss2, otherwise fuck it, it's not worth the time.

[The Stig]

The 1st boss does an AoE too and so if people were dodging anyway it would've taken the Stoneskin off which is something I would still pop Medica 2 (+regen on tank) for regardless. Currently my Medica 2 does 1400~ healing, Medica does 2100~. My stoneskin will mitigate 1100~ on the DPS, and 1700~ on the tank.

I guess ultimately the point is I'm just delaying the inevitable if I cast Stoneskin; I'm still going to heal you, and it'll probably not make a difference whether I use it or not. And my train of thought lies in efficency (speed/dungeon flow, rather than MP):

it's not worth the tank waiting every single time for ss and it's not about being lazy. it's just faster to pull pull pull. i don't see what the problem is.

Ironically, as Carth pointed out, if it was a very speedy run and I only had 50% MP on pull and the tank didn't wait, I probaby would've swiftcast Stoneskin 2 lol or just Stoneskin prepull for MP management purposes.
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As it stands it's a nice but inconsequential buff in trivial content to have.

Think of Titan Hard. I still remember people raging at me for not Stoneskinning them (pre-Stoneskin 2). For a SCH that would mitigate an awesome 400~800 damage. For a WHM that with the old trait that would mean 1200~2000 damage (I believe trait was 25%?, just throwing out numbers around based on max HP possible). He stomps 2(?, maybe 3) times initially. The combined AoE heal from both healers (unless pre-agreed but who does that) would've covered 100% of damage suffered with or without Stoneskin. And after Stoneskin falls off it won't get reapplied, so why bother in the first place?

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Rapid Sever is also only a problem towards the end of the fight, especially with low DPS. If the boss has 3 or 4 stacks of that buff, then it does rather hurt.

Don't view me wrong, I know when to cast it and when not to. This wasn't one of those times.

The group was killing rather fast anyways, and apart from the slow pulls or the tank possibly telling his LS/FC mates about "omg healer doesn't cast stoneskin" (he was idle for a bit after the 1st boss died) it was only until after the first trash pack died did it suddenly become an issue enough for him to leave (despite no deaths). I suspect he got convinced to leave lol

End of the line is I cannot believe it's this much of an issue for some him, and the BLM that disconnected supporting his charade. If everything is going fine, why irrationally start an issue? haha

I've had healers refusing to heal me as tank in full STR, but this one was new where it was a big enough deal for him to leave, which is pretty fail (and amusing) in my opinion!

Had he just went along with it I probably won't be posting this lol


Oh one random remark, in hindsight he probably also waited for his cooldowns after seeing that chatlog again. But he was in Eso weapon/head and some Alex Normal bits... should be experienced enough to not rely on any big cooldowns for a boss.

[Carth]

He waited because its a nice buff to have, he probably expected it alike people expect him to speedrun & hold all the crap daily.

Stop being stupid.

Stoneskin is only worth casting for the dps, not the tank. No one gives a fuck if the tank has stoneskin in dungeons, but it's a decent buffer for dps who fail at dodging shit.

Stoneskin is 10% of your HP. STR and Penta-melded tanks can take a free auto-attack. VIT tanks take 1 and a half auto-attacks. Whoopie-freaken-do, I'm still going to heal you the same way regardless of the buffer because the bulk of a boss' damage comes in bursts. You know what also covers auto-attacks? Regens.

This is no different than idiots that think having a PLD in your party lets healer dps more with no grounds to back it up. It's a stupid myth.

For a WHM that with the old trait that would mean 1200~2000 damage (I believe trait was 25%?, just throwing out numbers around based on max HP possible).

Graniteskin was 18% of max HP.

[Neon_Sea]

fuck stoneskin, why do ppl even waste time casting that? Tank runs off with no protect? We do it live.

[Dotsudoku]

This shitshow has been going on for two pages, so maybe this has been covered, but stopppp ignoring that shitty PLD DPS gets even shittier when you attack nonsensical targets. This is a legitimate argument. Every time you make me Halone, you're slowing everything down. It's not a matter of "lol holding hate is easy get better". I could stand there and spam Flash if holding hate was my only responsibility.

[Silenka]

Wait, paladin does damage?

[Spider-Dan]

The issue is the tank waited 40+ seconds for Stoneskin II, not that stoneskin wasn't cast.

The issue is both.

If I'm on heals (read: SCH), I am always casting SS on anyone who doesn't have it whenever we are not in combat.

Are you justified in saying "pull already"? Sure. But you also should have started casting SS2 as soon as you came to a stop (and if Swiftcast was up, before you even came to a stop). You can always stop your SS2 cast and start casting a nuke if you see the tank run in.

[solracht]

This shitshow has been going on for two pages, so maybe this has been covered, but stopppp ignoring that shitty PLD DPS gets even shittier when you attack nonsensical targets. This is a legitimate argument. Every time you make me Halone, you're slowing everything down. It's not a matter of "lol holding hate is easy get better". I could stand there and spam Flash if holding hate was my only responsibility.

If you care about "not slowing everything down" maybe you shouldn't be doing Expert roulette on PLD.

[Karbuncle]

Stoneskin is 10% of your HP. STR and Penta-melded tanks can take a free auto-attack. VIT tanks take 1 and a half auto-attacks. Whoopie-freaken-do, I'm still going to heal you the same way regardless of the buffer because the bulk of a boss' damage comes in bursts. You know what also covers auto-attacks? Regens.

Honest question, not a trap, do you think precasting Adlo or Succor is wasteful as well? If not, on what principle do you differentiate the two as their benefits are near identical. I've just yet to meet a healer* who doesn't see the benefits of an Adlo/Stoneskin before a boss fight, trash or not... even if its only worth about 3-4 seconds of auto-attacking, thats a GCD worth of DPS you can maintain before switching to a more healing role. Also taking into account the reality that most tanks are going to wait a stupid amount of time before pulling a boss...

If you don't have swift and begin casting and everyone runs in? First thank your stars, second cancel the shit and begin your rotations... If they wait then chances are they were going to be slow pulling anyway and you saved the trouble of having to cure a shit DPS for a little longer. Baffling. Yah in everyones dream vacuum situation of Tanks just Leroy'ing all the bosses you're probably never going to hard cast a Stoneskin if you're smart... but with most tanks, almost every tank I've ever Duty'd with, they're going to stand there and take their time engaging, and god forbid you tell them to pull quicker, that just makes their princess kick in.

*I guess aside from half this thread.

[Dotsudoku]

If you care about "not slowing everything down" maybe you shouldn't be doing Expert roulette on PLD.

Argument isn't about maximizing shit in duty finder. It's that "attacking whatever should be fine because holding hate is easy" is an asinine position. Caring about the consequences of haphazard targeting is one thing -a thing everyone is within their rights to not give a shit about- but pretending they don't exist and lambasting anyone who complains about it is another, and blatantly wrong.

[Elcura]

I like in situations where it doesn't matter what you do people think it matters what you do.

[Carth]

Honest question, not a trap, do you think precasting Adlo or Succor is wasteful as well?

That's not what I've been saying. Let me clarify.

The context of the Stig's post is the tank waiting 40+ seconds for Stoneskin II. Should it have been casted within that time? Sure. As a WHM I cast Stoneskin pre-boss out of habit. But when you look at the math, there is no situation where waiting anywhere beyond 3 seconds for Stoneskin is worth it because the HP shield "allowing WHM to dps" only saves you about 3 seconds, and that's not because of the tank taking a hit, it's because of the dps not taking as much damage from raid-wide AoE or boss mechanics.

The point isn't that Stoneskin II is bad because it's not. It's that Stoneskin II is not worth waiting for, especially not 40+ seconds. If you don't have swiftcast up, I fully expect the tank to rush in regardless of if I'm casting or not because that's the optimal thing to do. If they're waiting then it's evident to me that they're not speedrunning through the dungeon because a 10% HP shield is not worth anything for a tank. And if they're waiting for a non-WHM to cast stoneskin on everyone... lol.

I like in situations where it doesn't matter what you do people think it matters what you do.

Also this.

[Raldo]

It's also worth mentioning that if the healer doesn't cast stoneskin, the only person it affects is... the healer. If the healer isn't casting it, the tank shouldn't get their panties in a wad about it.

[Ratatapa]

It's also worth mentioning that if the healer doesn't cast stoneskin, the only person it affects is... the healer. If the healer isn't casting it, the tank shouldn't get their panties in a wad about it.

But if PLD doesn't get SS he will lose HP faster, and maybe his Rotation have Spirit's within at the start, so without stoneskin he'll have less HP and it will do less DMG

HOW DARE YOU RUIN PLD DPS!

[Luthia]

So, Ive run into my fair share of fails on df, but this is one of the best, and its somewhat related to the whole SS bitching thats been going on recently. Huge screen shots, cause I aint editing them, PS4 limitations and all.



Some context: Tank had been bitching at the blm, cause he was aoe´ing shit down and not following his markers, Lol. I was on sch, also dpsing shit down and aoe the fuck of everything I could. I was pullin hate off banes, but wasnt sayin shit since I didnt wanna bitch. Then this happens:

Spoiler: show

Mind you, he was gettin adlo every pull, and hardly ever got under 50% HP. Later found out, he´s on my server as well :/

[Carth]

I was too mesmerized by all the fey glow errors. How does that not annoy you?

[TheDirtyHobo]

My first instinct was that the screenshots were making fun of the SCH for being an indignant, self-righteous cunt. Then I realized it was you.

[The Stig]

About to jump in DF again to heal! Will report back with any Stoneskin drama.

Related: did you win the bow?

edit: no drama

[Spider-Dan]

What is this "Stoneskin is a WHM skill, I am a SCH" stuff? Does that also mean you don't have time for Protect?
Are you one of these guys whose immersion is ruined by having to level THM for Swiftcast?

edit: Never mind, mystery solved. You aren't casting Stoneskin because your CNJ is LV22. (It also appears that your PLD is LV60 but you haven't even unlocked MRD?)

Time for the good old "you came to the right thread" comments...

[Karbuncle]

It's that Stoneskin II is not worth waiting for

If this is the crust of it, I agree. Its worth having, not waiting for. Which is why swiftcast exists and I love it.