Congress threatening to shutdown unless ACA is defunded/repealed immediately.

[Talint]

[Callisto]

Eh we're already boned, we may as well just get the default over with so that I can get started on putting together my dystopian future motorcycle gang

[Waraji]

^ Reminds me of

Spoiler: show

I too hate Mitch Mcconnell fkin Turtle Face.

[archibaldcrane]

House Republicans have dropped two demands related to Obamacare from their proposal to end the fiscal stalemate in Washington, sources told CNN. These include a proposal to delay the medical device tax and another to tighten income verification of those seeking subsidies to purchase health insurance under the Affordable Care Act. Separately, Republican Rep. Devin Nunes of California told CNN's Dana Bash that he expects the House to vote on Tuesday night on its plan to reopen the government and avoid a possible U.S. default.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/15/politi...html?hpt=hp_t1

Well that should do it right? If those two things are cut out, are we only left with cutting government contributions to congressional health plans?

It would be kind of fitting if the only "concession" they managed to extract from this brinksmanship is that which makes their own health care costs increase lol.

[Callisto]

It likely will have no real affect on them, but completely screw all of their aides.

[ringthree]

It likely will have no real affect on them, but completely screw all of their aides.

The most recent version that I saw dropped the Vitter's amendment language for just elected politicians and cabinet members.

If that is true, then they really caved on absolutely everything.

[Mistress Stowastiq]

Looks like Fitch placed us on negative rating watch.. sigh.
Reuters:
Fitch Places United States' 'AAA' on Rating Watch Negative

I was going to paste it all here but it is truly a massive unformatted article with spelling errors. I guess they need to edit it still.
Here is a snippet:

Spoiler: show

NEW YORK/LONDON, October 15 (Fitch) Fitch Ratings has placed the United States of America's (U.S.) 'AAA' Long-term foreign and local currency Issuer Default Ratings (IDRs) on Rating Watch Negative (RWN). The ratings of all outstanding U.S. sovereign debt securities have also been placed on RWN, as has the U.S. Short-term foreign currency rating of 'F1+'.

The Outlook on the Long-term ratings was previously Negative. The U.S. Country Ceiling has been affirmed at 'AAA'. Fitch expects to resolve the RWN by the end of Q114 at the latest, although timing would necessarily reflect developments and events, including the duration of any agreement to raise the debt ceiling.

KEY RATING DRIVERS In line with Fitch's previous statements, the RWN reflects the following key rating drivers and their relative weights: High - The U.S. authorities have not raised the federal debt ceiling in a timely manner before the Treasury exhausts extraordinary measures.

The U.S. Treasury Secretary has said that extraordinary measures will be exhausted by 17 October, leaving cash reserves of just USD30bn. Although Fitch continues to believe that the debt ceiling will be raised soon, the political brinkmanship and reduced financing flexibility could increase the risk of a U.S. default. - Although the Treasury would still have limited capacity to make payments after 17 October it would be exposed to volatile revenue and expenditure flows. The Treasury may be unable to prioritise debt service, and it is unclear whether it even has the legal authority to do so.

The U.S. risks being forced to incur widespread delays of payments to suppliers and employees, as well as social security payments to citizens - all of which would damage the perception of U.S. sovereign creditworthiness and the economy. - The prolonged negotiations over raising the debt ceiling (following the episode in August 2011) risks undermining confidence in the role of the U.S. dollar as the preeminent global reserve currency, by casting doubt over the full faith and credit of the U.S. This "faith" is a key reason why the U.S. 'AAA' rating can tolerate a substantially higher level of public debt than other 'AAA' sovereigns. --snip--

[Callisto]

'sall good, Montell was saying we can get a payday loan even with bad credit or no credit

[Quicklet]

Heritage Action and other extremely conservative groups pushing the GOP to vote no to any continuing resolution. It's not looking good for any kind of deal to be brokered tonight.

[Xantavia]

How would the government defaulting affect somebody like me and those in my same situation? Part-time work (because Obamacare according to the bosses), barely making above minimum wage, and student debt up to my eyeballs already. Does a bad rating have a ripple effect down to those of us already struggling? If the answer is no, I want to be selfish and just say Fuck you to wall street, let them know how it feels.

[Callisto]

It depends on of there's any reliance on government assistance. Default means that while we will get back on track with paying debt, the interest rate on the government borrowing money will spike, and the extra money spent there will need to be taken away from something else. Also if the markets panic, or if they went with a portfolio weighted towards treasury bonds thinking it'd be safer, a lot of middle/lower class people could see their meager retirement savings exploded.

[Drex]

How would the government defaulting affect somebody like me and those in my same situation? Part-time work (because Obamacare according to the bosses), barely making above minimum wage, and student debt up to my eyeballs already. Does a bad rating have a ripple effect down to those of us already struggling? If the answer is no, I want to be selfish and just say Fuck you to wall street, let them know how it feels.

in theory: government can't borrow anymore, has to cut spending to a balanced budget immediately. deep cuts to govt services, most likely including education and healthcare. painful for poor people to be sure. alternate reality: fed keeps buying our debt despite the massive downgrade, govt continues funding deficit for a while, everyone loses fair in the dollar, and hyperinflation rapes everybody. good news is you can pay off your debt, bad news is you can't afford bread.

don't underestimate the status quo though. there could be a fierce denial effect. its tough to say what would really happen given the fact that every other country would probably have a crisis as well. maybe the us would be the prettiest pig and nothing would really change.

[Mistress Stowastiq]

I am being overly optimistic and naive here but I hope Boehner is doing all this, going through the motions so that he can say to the tparty, "I tried my best heres the evidence, now I gotta pass a clean CR".

[Quicklet]

How would the government defaulting affect somebody like me and those in my same situation? Part-time work (because Obamacare according to the bosses), barely making above minimum wage, and student debt up to my eyeballs already. Does a bad rating have a ripple effect down to those of us already struggling? If the answer is no, I want to be selfish and just say Fuck you to wall street, let them know how it feels.

Nobody really knows for sure. I think the general consensus is that interest rates will go up, so if you have debt with variable rates those could go higher. Future loans you take out would have higher rates. There would be a huge ripple effect on the housing market and businesses who rely on debt, which could result in the modest hiring we've seen recently turning into job losses and another recession. I don't think Congress is stupid enough to not do something immediately if things start to go belly-up, but the damage might be done by then and you could see things like a weak holiday sales season, etc. This would honestly hurt regular people much more than rich people.

Most sane people have a hard time believing that some kind of deal won't get done at the last minute, but we're getting very close to uncharted territory here.

[archibaldcrane]

Watching the GOP self-immolate in the House is pretty glorious, hopefully they will be shamed enough to hold a vote on the Senate bill.

Full on clownshoes.

[Kanriel]

How do interest rates go up when most of the national debt is owed to ourselves?

[Callisto]

How do interest rates go up when most of the national debt is owed to ourselves?

China alone owns $1.2T in treasury bonds, Japan has a sizeable amount as well.

[archibaldcrane]

How do interest rates go up when most of the national debt is owed to ourselves?

The point is that our interest rates are so low because we are the world-standard of stability. People and nations won't buy our debt for a tiny return if it's not top-tier stable, and as we raise the rates we offer to buy our debt, we raise the rates at which we loan to banks, which in turn raises the rates at which they loan to us.

[Kanriel]

China alone owns $1.2T in treasury bonds, Japan has a sizeable amount as well.

So a small amount of our debt will have rates skyrocket.

The point is that our interest rates are so low because we are the world-standard of stability. People and nations won't buy our debt for a tiny return if it's not top-tier stable, and as we raise the rates we offer to buy our debt, we raise the rates at which we loan to banks, which in turn raises the rates at which they loan to us.

Oh I understand that the ripple effect will likely be brutal. I just was wondering specifically about how we raise interest rates on, literally, our own debt.

[archibaldcrane]

Oh I understand that the ripple effect will likely be brutal. I just was wondering specifically about how we raise interest rates on, literally, our own debt.

The debt we've already issued (the treasury bills) are fixed-interest. Already issued debt will not change, it's only new debt (and things like variable-rate mortgages and such) that will have their interest rates jacked up.