Congress threatening to shutdown unless ACA is defunded/repealed immediately.

**Dotsudoku** · 2013-10-23 18:33

Where we're going, we don't need data.

**thetruepandagod** · 2013-10-23 18:46

Originally Posted by archibaldcrane

Ok, onus is on you now, since I posted data showing that out of 7 major countries, the US is getting thrashed in every category, prove that our system delivers better average care than anyone else.

Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.

Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.

Lower income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians.

Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the U.K.

Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations.

All sources here, not that anyone will look at them: http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649

Also.

The importance of long waits in Canada was recently highlighted by the Chaoulli case in Quebec which successfully challenged the government ban on private provision of medical services covered by the Canadian system. Private services are expected to alleviate shortage of facilities under the system and reduce wait times. Cases are being brought in other provinces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaoull...ney_General%29

**thetruepandagod** · 2013-10-23 18:47

Originally Posted by Blubbartron

Apparently he doesn't give two shits about the average care for average people. As long as our country has the "best" for the top 1% that can afford it, fuck the peasants.

Don't misinterpret me, i also want fat people to fuck off.

Originally Posted by Dotsudoku

Where we're going, we don't need data.

rep'd, liked, high 5'd my screen.

**quannum** · 2013-10-23 18:53

a wild libertarian think tank appears

**Blubbartron** · 2013-10-23 19:01

Oh yeah, this website is SUPER legit. Super.

https://secure.ncpa.org/countdown/

**thetruepandagod** · 2013-10-23 19:02

Originally Posted by quannum

a wild libertarian think tank appears

Except no, i just think that in this one instance it is better for us to not have a government mandated single payer system given our nations proclivities to abuse such things. Completely disregarding all the other reasons such as less incentive for medical innovation, longer waits, and worse overall care.

**archibaldcrane** · 2013-10-23 19:03

That data is cherry-picked as fuck. Even if you look at this:

I could say "The US has a higher overall quality of care than Canada, more effective and better coordinated than Germany, more patient-centered than the Netherlands, with access equal to Australia AND shorter wait times than Australia OR Canada!"

And I'd be totally right.

That doesn't mean that we still aren't scraping the bottom of the barrel in those categories.

We DO do well in breast and colon cancer, better than most countries, because we put an emphasis on early detection and screening the fuck out of it, as well as reporting every stage of cancer (including stage 0) as part of our "survival rates". That is a good thing, but it's hard to argue that we couldn't do that under single payer as well.

When you're talking about medical advances, remember that the US has a population that is more than Germany, UK, France, Canada, Australia, Switzerland and New Zealand COMBINED - that means more doctors, more research, more discoveries, more of everything.

**thetruepandagod** · 2013-10-23 19:05

Originally Posted by Blubbartron

Oh yeah, this website is SUPER legit. Super.

https://secure.ncpa.org/countdown/

How about you look at the sources cool guy, one of which is the same source that some of archi's info comes from.(it's the OECD btw) But yea keep i found that website in 2min of googling an hour ago, i would find more from websites of your choosing if i knew anyone in this actually cared or could actually change opinions from an internet debate.

**thetruepandagod** · 2013-10-23 19:07

Originally Posted by archibaldcrane

Good stats bro, i wish i was right like you.

Awww thanks man that means a lot.

**archibaldcrane** · 2013-10-23 19:07

dude, just don't

**Blubbartron** · 2013-10-23 19:08

I work in the healthcare industry. I don't know what you do, but there's a very good chance I'm more educated on healthcare in America, as well as the ACA, than you are.

**thetruepandagod** · 2013-10-23 19:13

Originally Posted by Blubbartron

I work in the healthcare industry. I don't know what you do, but there's a very good chance I'm more educated on healthcare in America, as well as the ACA, than you are.

So do i fuckwit. Not even internet joking.

**Byrthnoth** · 2013-10-23 19:17

Originally Posted by thetruepandagod

Why does this matter at all?

Yeah, we're the world's research leader in almost every field. That doesn't mean we use the tools that we invent efficiently.

Cancer rate - You're looking at groups that are not as genetically diverse as us. Of course you're going to be able to cherrypick genetic predispositions towards certain cancers. Heck, the British problems could just be cultural. Stiff upper lip, wot wot. Similarly, we might do better for prostate cancer because of our "you're 50, go get a prostate exam ya pussy" mentality.

Chronic disease - They're specifically talking about the prescription rate of cholesterol reducing drugs relative to the cholesterol levels of the patient, and it could be that they're applying a standard that's different in different countries. For instance, maybe our statin prescription threshold is lower than the other countries. Correlate their lack of statin prescriptions with a higher rate of heart attacks and you might risk me giving a fuck.

Self-reported health - If you're feeling okay, you don't get sick more than your friends but you aren't superman, is your health "fair" or "good?" How do you think a midwesterner would answer the question? How about someone from NYC? How about someone from California? Okay, now that we've hopefully established that results to such surveys hardly generalize within any given country, lets move across the border to Canada.

Waiting longer to see a specialist - What is the rate of specialist prescriptions? Perhaps they've overloaded their system because they approve more specialist visits. Or, alternatively, perhaps we pay for specialists unnecessarily. This one is kind of similar to the statin one. It needs to be paired with a consequence or it is meaningless.

All-in-all, reading the sources made the linked page feel cherrypicked and undercontrolled. Specific cancers. Specific prescriptions. Lack of evidence to negate very obvious alternative explanations.

**kuronosan** · 2013-10-23 19:40

Panda what do you do exactly?

**tyven** · 2013-10-23 19:42

He is professionally handsome

**Ksandra** · 2013-10-23 19:48

Originally Posted by Byrthnoth

Why does this matter at all?

Was just about to ask this.

I am trying to figure out why we don't need to change our healthcare system just because we are p. good at inventing shit.

**archibaldcrane** · 2013-10-23 19:51

Simply considering population/size of heath system makes that chart not particularly impressive. US is on there 10 times, UK 4 times. UK's population is about 20% of ours, yet they make 40% of our major health discoveries? We should do what they do!

**tyven** · 2013-10-23 20:02

biggest threat to the ACA right now is whether or not the federal exchange ends up being authorized to award premium tax credits

**thetruepandagod** · 2013-10-23 20:13

Originally Posted by kuronosan

Panda what do you do exactly?

Your mother.

**Andalusian girls** · 2013-10-23 20:15

Thread: Congress threatening to shutdown unless ACA is defunded/repealed immediately.

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