Congress threatening to shutdown unless ACA is defunded/repealed immediately.

[Ksandra]

Ya I am going to say you can find a much better plan going through the obamacare website. That plan you have sounds like shit. More than likely your insurance jacked up the price in hopes people are too lazy to find anything better.

[Eagleheart]

I think its pretty good for what I'm getting. o.O What I know for a fact is that $620 is a lot more than either $224 or $120.

I also know that this is all just one long farce. As Ksandra said on last page, what is really desired here is single payer.

No one working on Obamacare is terribly worried about making sure it works nicely. What is needed here are enemies to point out to the people at large, and say "You see? You cannot trust them with your future. Trust us."

Why anyone trusts anyone in this world is beyond me. Even amongst those posting here, there are folks arguing what levels of deception are acceptable in order to realize a much-valued goal.

Why is deception acceptable at all?

Because people would balk outright if they were told the truth. Thus, they must be lied to.

(o.O ) That anyone cares to defend that, regardless of where they fall on the sliding scale of idealism, is amusing (in a grim fashion) and altogether terrifying.

Did anyone watch the video I posted? Did anyone have a comment to make about it?

Anyone at all?

[Edelweiss]

I think its pretty good for what I'm getting. o.O What I know for a fact is that $620 is a lot more than either $224 or $120.

I also know that this is all just one long farce. As Ksandra said on last page, what is really desired here is single payer.

No one working on Obamacare is terribly worried about making sure it works nicely. What is needed here are enemies to point out to the people at large, and say "You see? You cannot trust them with your future. Trust us."

Why anyone trusts anyone in this world is beyond me. Even amongst those posting here, there are folks arguing what levels of deception are acceptable in order to realize a much-valued goal.

Why is deception acceptable at all?

Because people would balk outright if they were told the truth. Thus, they must be lied to.

(o.O ) That anyone cares to defend that, regardless of where they fall on the sliding scale of idealism, is amusing (in a grim fashion) and altogether terrifying.

Did anyone watch the video I posted? Did anyone have a comment to make about it?

Anyone at all?

It was nice when you stopped posting in the XIV section.

Maybe you can go back to not posting at all anymore. Thanks.

[Eagleheart]

It was nice when you stopped posting in the XIV section.

Maybe you can go back to not posting at all anymore. Thanks.

*crickets chirp*

So, yeah... Have you anything substantive to say?

Did you care to comment on the acceptability of screwing over a few million who did nothing to anyone else but pay for their insurance and mind their own business?

Naw, you're not interested in that. You've got no reason to engage anyone on anything, right? You are sure you know the truth, and so there's no need to answer any questions directed your way.

Increasingly, the people in this country are only good for aimless hostility and perfunctory one-liners. There is very little substance left in this populace. >_> 'murica, indeed.

Also, I haven't stopped posting in XIV forums. There simply isn't anything to say at the moment. o.O

I have many hobbies and interests, the nineteenth iteration of XI-vs-XIV game design is not high on my priorities list, and who cares about the Lightning FATEs?

EDIT: Idly it occurs to me that you might not be American, and so I should probably change "the people in this country" to "the people of Western civilization", but eh.

[Quixon]

Only issue I have is with calling this shit Affordable. Because it really is far from affordable.

Running some quick numbers,

The Cheapest Bronze Plan on the NY Exchange Website is $680/Month for a family of 2. All subsidy is cut off at 400% of the poverty line, roughly $77,000 for that same family of 2 (~45k for single). $8160 total for 1 year of medical coverage for Husband and Wife making a combined income over roughly 77k....... The plan was shit too. High Deductibles, 4K/8K, no out of network coverage, no specialist coverage until the deductible was met, etc.

That doesn't sound at all Affordable to me lol.

If it works to bring down the overall price of insurance for the average Joe I'm all for it. I don't see much evidence of that though just yet unfortunately.

[Ksandra]

I think its pretty good for what I'm getting.

And you are, sorry to say, exactly the kind of sucker these insurance companies are trying to get.

Seriously, did you actually look at other plans yet?

[Mojo]

And you are, sorry to say, exactly the kind of sucker these insurance companies are trying to get.

Seriously, did you actually look at other plans yet?

I kind of agree. Lots of hostility without carefully examining all options.

[Correction]

Did anyone watch the video I posted? Did anyone have a comment to make about it?

Anyone at all?

What is there to say about the video? Of course people who paid next to nothing for health care will end up paying more if they can afford to.
Also where the hell do you live where an individual high deductible plan is $620 a month? Via covered california I see $5k deductible plans with $60 copays for less than <$200, including free yearly preventative care. For $600 a month I'd get complete coverage:
http://i.minus.com/ibqkfQFh2XzstL.png

[Mojo]

Can anyone help me find out the details of plans in Utah? Seems like it's being hidden from us or I'm looking in the wrong places...

[Eagleheart]

And you are, sorry to say, exactly the kind of sucker these insurance companies are trying to get.

Seriously, did you actually look at other plans yet?

Yep, I sure did. o.O Shopped around with three different insurers. This amount of money was just fine with me for what I wanted to get out of the coverage.

Roughly $140 for the plan itself, then another $80ish for the extras I tacked on. Good plan, very affordable for me, covered all my required bases without me spending overmuch on health insurance that I will likely not need, being in good physical condition, with a good diet and no drug use, controlled or elsewise.

Now I shall be paying far more than that for what amounts to the same plan. Yet this is good policy to you; why?

No, really, you keep coming back to how I'm getting shafted by my insurer, while ignoring the other half of the coin: I'm getting taken for thrice as much next year because of ACA. Why do you not comment on that part?

I realize you want single-payer, and I can respect that position, though I disagree mightily with it, because you are consistent about it. ^o.o Last page, you said quite pointedly that keeping the insurers around was a disaster waiting to happen, and that the Dems were hurting themselves by crafting ACA with them in mind.

I think that single-payer would be even worse, but hey, it's neither here nor there, because that's not what is going on right now. What is going on is the ACA as crafted by the Democrats in '09, with support from those very insurers that you wanted out of the picture.

What is going on is that the President feels backed into a corner, with a Dem civil war erupting over how this is a Grade-A disaster that may well cost them many seats; but more importantly, a lot of folks are being stiffed for large sums of cash at a time when the citizenry, on the whole, doesn't have very much cash at all.

Perhaps it would be best to look at the big picture, rather than quibbling points about a 'substandard' plan that is no longer around, having been replaced by a plan with nearly identical benefits, costing just shy of triple the original plan.

[Mojo]

Did you actually find that plan on the marketplace or is this a quote from your insurance provider on what you need to pay to 'keep your current plan'? There is a huge difference.

[Ksandra]

Yep, I sure did. o.O Shopped around with three different insurers.

This doesn't sound like you went to the obamacare website.

Now I shall be paying far more than that for what amounts to the same plan. Yet this is good policy to you; why?

You are only paying more if you stick to that plan.

No, really, you keep coming back to how I'm getting shafted by my insurer, while ignoring the other half of the coin: I'm getting taken for thrice as much next year because of ACA. Why do you not comment on that part?

You are getting it not because of ACA but because you seem to not want to switch plans.

Let's try this. What state do you live in and what is your annual income?

Also where the hell do you live where an individual high deductible plan is $620 a month? Via covered california I see $5k deductible plans with $60 copays for less than <$200, including free yearly preventative care.

Ya, his whole thing is sounding fishy to me. Heck, my plan without employer is like $390 a month (I checked to see which would be cheaper), and that's with a 3k deductible and $25 dollar copay for three people. Not to mention a shit load of preventative care that is free. (and we don't get subsidies)

[archibaldcrane]

Dude, are you like 50? What state are you in?

Seriously though, age and state please - I take it you live alone? Is your income high enough so that you don't qualify for any subsidies? I'm all for bitching about insurance going up for the young, healthy and higher-income (I did it myself in this thread) but I don't believe you that you can't find a comparable high deductible plan for less than $600/mo.

[Eagleheart]

Did you actually find that plan on the marketplace or is this a quote from your insurance provider on what you need to pay to 'keep your current plan'? There is a huge difference.

Nope, I have not gone to the marketplace since the first week, when I was not able to finish making an account.

To this point in time, the website is still undergoing extensive changes, and there have been multiple warnings from both the government and the media that wires are getting crossed.

We have one chap in our circle who has been signed up for Medicaid after having made an account on the site.

^O.o Thanks, but I'll wait until the site is actually functional before I throw my information at it again. No dice there.

EDIT: I am 27, Nebraskan, single, no drugs, no alcohol, good condition.

I will never accept a subsidy. I am a grown man with a job of my own. I do not need the people's tax money paying for ANYTHING for me.

As I understand it, I am eligible for subsidies up until roughly $77,000 pre-taxed income, but I'd have to be an adolescent to accept such a proposition.

The idea of having the tax dollars of other men and women paying for my care, a healthy grown man who can fend for himself, is utterly abhorrent.

[Ksandra]

no please, let us do it for you. state and age?

[Mojo]

Okay then, so what you've essentially said is that you haven't actually tried looking at other plans. You're mad that you insurance company has provided a huge number for you to 'keep your current plan' which seems like it is way more than it should be (because it is!) Go look at the marketplace and compare what you're being offered to what is there. Everything bad that was ever said about Healthcare.gov is true, but I don't think you complete registration to view most of the plans without subsidiaries. Until you do this you don't have any legitimate grounds to complain on, you mostly just come off as really ignorant and unwilling to change.

[Eagleheart]

Okay then, so what you've essentially said is that you haven't actually tried looking at other plans. You're mad that you insurance company has provided a huge number for you to 'keep your current plan' which seems like it is way more than it should be (because it is!) Go look at the marketplace and compare what you're being offered to what is there. Everything bad that was ever said about Healthcare.gov is true, but I don't think you complete registration to view most of the plans without subsidiaries. Until you do this you don't have any legitimate grounds to complain on, you mostly just come off as really ignorant and unwilling to change.

There is nothing at all wrong with being displeased at having change forced upon you when it was not needed. o.0 No, I'm not happy that I'm going to end up shopping for something new. My healthcare was fine as it was. My parents healthcare was fine as it was. My friends' healthcare was fine as it was.

Now the Fed is involved, and, as with all other things the Fed touches, it is a disaster from the first play. o_O They cannot make ACA work, and people still clamor for single payer. Why?

[Blubbartron]

Insurance companies end plans all the time. Get over it.

[Ksandra]

There is nothing at all wrong with being displeased at having change forced upon you when it was not needed. o.0 No, I'm not happy that I'm going to end up shopping for something new. My healthcare was fine as it was. My parents healthcare was fine as it was. My friends' healthcare was fine as it was.

No, they weren't. And you are ignorant to think otherwise.

Just to give you an idea:

http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ehi/...e=best-sellers

not even from the care website which will probably have even better deals. Tons of plans (not all mind you, actually stop being lazy and read), that are cheaper than $600, and many that are cheaper and better than what you were paying.

You are trying to say the ACA is bad because you want to be a lazy fuck and not see how you are the kind of person that will actually save money from it.

Blame the insurance companies for trying to trick sheep like you who are too lazy to pay attention to where your money is going.

[edit] I cannot look at specific details from the obamacare website without doing a full on registering. But going through the generic one it suggests you can get platinum coverage for ~$250 a month:

https://www.healthcare.gov/find-prem...age=49andUnder

You have to be mindnumbing nuts to blame the ACA for your insurance company trying to charge you $600.

[Eagleheart]

Insurance companies end plans all the time. Get over it.

*shrug*

This one's non-voluntary. O.o The Fed has no place intruding upon my healthcare.

Although at this point, who can say what is actually going to happen? Pols and pundits across all spectrums are at their wits' end, and one another's throats, on whether or not the legislation being conceived by Landrieu/Upton/not-legislation-but-same-effect proposed by Obama are possible, or legal.

Quite a mess. And all this is only the beginning, due to the delay of the employer mandate. O.o The quibbling going on now will be much greater in late '14.