Twintania downed because FFXIV is so much easier than [insert name here]

[Raldo]

I have only recently started working on T5 and I was wondering if I could have a sanity check. I am a whm with an ilvl of 82 at this point in time

We are still working on conflags, the issues we are having is either we fail to destroy the fast conflag, or the tank dies coming off the fast conflag -- Twin likes hitting them with some pretty heavy moves as they leave. I have been told that I should dps during the conflag phase, but after looking at some whm POV videos I am not seeing that so I am wondering if its correct. It is fairly hectic to be dpsing, keeping the tank topped off for death sentance while also paying attention to the markers, I could imagine being able to dps once I'm more familiar with the fight but I am wondering if it should be considered necessary.

I'm just wondering if the dps during conflags is a problem, will it make the snake phase impossible? I would guess that part of the fight is much more healing intensive and it wouldn't be very possible to switch to cleric stance during that phase. I can certainly work on my multi-tasking but seems like a very difficult phase for whm if that is the case.

Short conflag suggestions, in no particular order:
1) If you're having your MT run into the conflag, your healers could be DDing. Nobody targettable can take any damage at that point. Don't forget Cleric Stance. If dying after conflag finishes is an issue, then one or both healers need to stop DPSing once it gets low in order to give themselves time to remove Cleric's Stance and, most importantly, have their GCD up and ready to use immediately. Also, your tank should not be entering the conflag until they have a sizeable amount of HP.
2) Your DDs should be consciously aware of which conflags are short ones, and they should be saving buffs for those instances.
3) If your OT isn't already, they should be in a DD stance (Sword oath or Defiance-off).
4) When people see the conflag icon over ANYONE'S head, they need to stop using abilities on Twin and start blowing their buffs during this period. The early stop means their GCD will be up and ready to use as soon as the conflag is targettable, and the pre-buffing means they don't waste any conflag time popping buffs.
5) Several jobs can save their off-GCD attacks for the short conflags to pump a little extra damage. WAR/DRG/MNK stun move, BRD Blunt Arrow and Repelling Shot (nobody fucking remembers about this ability!), SMN can Bane+Fester and/or Energy Drain
6) SMN/SCH should start with their most-damaging DoT (Bio), and work their way down. This ensures that the most damage is done as quickly as possible. I wouldn't suggest placing more than two DoTs, and you might even be better off with just the one DoT (aside from Bane, obviously, if that's an option). Don't forget to switch your SMN pet over to hitting the conflag!!!
7) BRD can pre-place a Flaming Arrow to do extra damage, and even damage their own conflag while they're in it. I'm still not sure if Bard is better off placing both their DoTs, or just one. If you want to really optimize, Bard should start with Venomous Bite since it takes 5+ ticks for Windbite's damage to break ahead of Venomous.

[Sigmakan]

So my coil static is finally putting some effort into T5 after clearing T4 for nearly 2 months. However, Practicing conflags in phase 2 and we've come across a DPS problem for the faster ones, which to me just seems odd and I can't figure it out.

We have BRD BLM SMN DRG for our DPS. All of them are at least i84+ with the DRG being i90. So I thought that with both tanks helping on conflags as i88 PLDs would be more than enough but we had trouble consistently killing them in time. Currently we are stacking in groups of 4 for fireballs. unfortunately not everyone in the group has enough HP to stack in smaller groups of 3 although we did try it.

This has resulted in them wanting me to solo tank the whole fight and have our OT switch to his DRG for more DPS. Problem is our OT sucks at DRG and isn't even that well geared on it so there isn't that much of an increase. No i90 weapon and probably i78 or 79 at best with his gear. This did make up for our DPS issues, but has me concerned for phase 3.

I'm going to parse them the next time we go for some attempts to try and figure out where our DPS problem is, because I can't figure out how we've had so much trouble on conflags unless one of them just plain sucks.

PLD is actually quite good for destroying conflags. For fast conflags the PLD should be able to do Fight or Flight, Spirits, Circle Scorn in addition to the normal RoH combo. This is quite a bit of damage. Having off-GCD damage like Spirits and CoS is a huge asset.

In general DPS should be saving CDs and off-GCD moves for the Fast Conflags.

[Deuce]

PLD is actually quite good for destroying conflags. For fast conflags the PLD should be able to do Fight or Flight, Spirits, Circle Scorn in addition to the normal RoH combo. This is quite a bit of damage. Having off-GCD damage like Spirits and CoS is a huge asset.

In general DPS should be saving CDs and off-GCD moves for the Fast Conflags.

Yeah I've been trying to time my CDs on CoS and Spirits so they're up for fast conflags and we've been saving CDs for the fast ones as well, but when we do fail to kill one with 4 DPS it usually is by maybe 1-2 seconds. It's going to take more practice to get down, but I'm just a little concerned that we're having to result to having 5 DPS for the fast conflags.

[Seravi Edalborez]

We are still working on conflags, the issues we are having is either we fail to destroy the fast conflag, or the tank dies coming off the fast conflag -- Twin likes hitting them with some pretty heavy moves as they leave. I have been told that I should dps during the conflag phase, but after looking at some whm POV videos I am not seeing that so I am wondering if its correct. It is fairly hectic to be dpsing, keeping the tank topped off for death sentance while also paying attention to the markers, I could imagine being able to dps once I'm more familiar with the fight but I am wondering if it should be considered necessary.

It was discussed earlier in this topic, but if you're sticking tank in conflag you should make an effort to push Twintania to phase 2 (85%, first neurolink drop) very shortly before or after a Death Sentence, not at some random time. We never see DS in conflag phase since it's synced up such that MT is always inside conflag when Twin would cast it. Otherwise it's kind of needlessly taxing on healers.

In our group, we do Succor + Medi2 after every fireball, and WHM also tosses Regen on MT when he's about to go in conflag. So even if he eats something like Plummet before he's in, he'll be fine when he comes out.

6) SMN/SCH should start with their most-damaging DoT (Bio), and work their way down. This ensures that the most damage is done as quickly as possible. I'm not a summoner, but I wouldn't suggest placing more than two DoTs; certainly never more than 3 (aside from Bane, obviously, if that's an option). Don't forget to switch your SMN pet over to hitting the conflag!!!

Since a 4-stack conflag is like 10? seconds, I never put on more than just Bio. Miasma and BioII need 3 ticks to exceed Ruin, Bio will match 2 and exceed with 3 ticks. My SCH routine if I feel like DPSing conflag is Bio>Energydrain>Ruin>Ruin2, then Cleric off in anticipation for tank coming out of conflag. But our DPS is full or nearly full i90 now so it's not even necessary anymore for me.

[Falisa]

One thing I tell any group that asks for help on conflags is that your dps need blow everything they have on them, and not hold off with the mindset they need to save it so they can boost their dps on Twin herself.

Before I learned this on BLM, I was just going through my rotation normally and using whatever I happened to have when that fast conflag appeared and I can safely say I probably caused a majority of our conflag explosions due to this mindset. Now I make sure I'm set and ready for the hard conflags and I blow all my mana on them, ending almost 100% of the time with a swiftcast flare to ensure it dies in time. Most people going into twin never touching her before don't realize that I really really mean this when I say it, then they see their first fast conflag and see what I mean after it.

On a side note, I generally dislike having the tank run into conflag especially if you have one or more double classes in your party. There is a danger of not even reaching level 2 limit break for the snakes with the tank dodging death sentence regularly.

[Raldo]

Since a 4-stack conflag is like 10? seconds, I never put on more than just Bio. Miasma and BioII need 3 ticks to exceed Ruin, Bio will match 2 and exceed with 3 ticks. My SCH routine if I feel like DPSing conflag is Bio>Energydrain>Ruin>Ruin2, then Cleric off in anticipation for tank coming out of conflag. But our DPS is full or nearly full i90 now so it's not even necessary anymore for me.

Thanks, I couldn't remember how long a 4-stack was (I was thinking 15?), so I was just grasping at straws there. What you do actually matches what our SCH does (minus the Energy Drain, too panicky about saving them for Lustrates), so I probably should've said that instead, heh.

[Judai]

As a BRD, for short conflags;

-I save my Attack Buffs for them. Raging for one, B4B and Hawk's for the other.
-I save and use Blunt+Repelling on them. (careful not to repel into the fire wall, depending on your positioing)
-I only use Flaming on the first, because A) We have no DPS issues on them, B) I want it ready for Snake phase, where I use it twice.
-I only apply one DoT to them. I also make sure I have just reapplied both DoTs to Twintania, before the conflag comes up.

I'm not really sure which is optimal but I usually use Venomous Bite on the Conflags, because they don't last the full cycle for the DoT potency to matter as much and it has the higher initial attack damage. I'm not really using it for the DoT damage anyways, I'm just using it for the chance at more BLs. A big issue I have seen with some BRDs is their DoTs wear off Twintania as Conflags pop and they are just spamming HS and nothing else.

[Raldo]

I'm not really sure which is optimal but I usually use Venomous Bite on the Conflags, because they don't last the full cycle for the DoT potency to matter as much and it has the higher initial attack damage.

Windbite: 60 + 45/tick
Venomous Bite: 100 + 35/tick

You are correct, it will take 4 ticks for Windbite to break even and 5+ for it to break ahead. I'll edit my earlier post.

I actually do Twin on BRD, so thank you for that. However minor, I was definitely doing it wrong.

[Seravi Edalborez]

I'm not really sure which is optimal but I usually use Venomous Bite on the Conflags, because they don't last the full cycle for the DoT potency to matter as much and it has the higher initial attack damage.

Venomous seems optimal for 4stack.

After 2 ticks: Windbite 150 (60 + 45x2) vs Venom 170 (100 + 35x2).
3 ticks: Windbite 195 vs Venom 205

e: beaten

e2:

On a side note, I generally dislike having the tank run into conflag especially if you have one or more double classes in your party. There is a danger of not even reaching level 2 limit break for the snakes with the tank dodging death sentence regularly.

We have BRD BRD BLM MNK and haven't had trouble reaching LB2. We put "OT" in front to eat plummets during phase 1 but reviewing our last video we had 2.5 bars at snakes so I don't think that was even necessary.

e3: Upon further further review, put up a BRD song (ballad) during 1st divebombs if possible. This seemed to crank up LB rate; we got like 1/5th of a bar from just that while dodging.

[Niiro]

I haven't been keeping up with everything in the thread but I have a few unresolved questions about Fireballs/Conflags.

Pets eating Fireball DO count when it comes to conflag timing, correct?

I've heard it mentioned that -DT buffs on someone eating Fireball will cause that negated damage to spill over onto other people (ie. Rampart would reduce a PLD's fireball damage by 20% but the 2 other people would take 10% more damage). Is there any merit to that at all or just a rumor/faulty perception?

Just how fking tiny is the Fireball radius? I've been elbow to elbow with people and been 1-shotted by it while they took nothing.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Pets do count for waxen flesh stacks, yes. So if you have a SMN and SCH you don't want Garuda to make an extra stack on the SMN's side if it isn't wanted.

Sounds like a bullshit rumor imo.

The animation looks plenty accurate to me, as far as aoe radius goes. For safety it's "best" to just stack right on top of each other and then split right after she turns (because at that point the animation is just slow; damage has already been decided) so you can see Conflag markers clearly. You know how there's a certain range on the outer part of Conflags where you take fire damage but don't get frozen? Kind of like that. I'd estimate 4-5y radius from fireball target.

[Exoduso]

Okay I'm starting to lose my shit with Asclepius the 4 snakes. Every video does it in a different way, but I'm assuming they all differ because of DPS composition.
Our group is DRG/SMN/BLM/BRD. We've tried a multitude of different things to get it down but we always seem to be just a little bit short before Twintania comes down for Profusion, while I've seen videos where they have a good 5-6 seconds before she even drops. So obviously we're missing dps somewhere, and I'm not sure where. Tried killing the first snake, tried leaving them both up, etc. Anyone have this party makeup and can give some insights on what you do with the adds and when to damage Asclepius?

[Carraway]

Okay I'm starting to lose my shit with Asclepius the 4 snakes. Every video does it in a different way, but I'm assuming they all differ because of DPS composition.
Our group is DRG/SMN/BLM/BRD. We've tried a multitude of different things to get it down but we always seem to be just a little bit short before Twintania comes down for Profusion, while I've seen videos where they have a good 5-6 seconds before she even drops. So obviously we're missing dps somewhere, and I'm not sure where. Tried killing the first snake, tried leaving them both up, etc. Anyone have this party makeup and can give some insights on what you do with the adds and when to damage Asclepius?

You could try saving cooldowns for Asclepius (including BV Foe) and/or getting into position after the 2nd set of dive bombs faster. In my personal experience, it's usually not just a DPS issue that slows down the phase, but how quickly the tanks pull the snakes together and how on-time the LB user is. Without having footage from your group's PoV, it's hard to troubleshoot exactly what's going on.

[TheDirtyHobo]

So, our group has been clearing turn 4 by brute force with no caster DPS for a few weeks now, and want to move on to making attempts at Twin. Everything I looked at has basically said to use caster LB on snakes or just not said anything about snakes at all. Is there any strategy to forego this, or is it basically a locked in requirement? We have a few people with caster jobs available, just not geared anywhere near a Twintania-ready level. Would it be better to just learn the fight from scratch without the safety net of two tanks, and bring one of the tanks as a gimpy caster just to have LB access?

[Raldo]

Have you tried it yet? I'd at least try to blaze your own trail before conceding defeat simply because there's no guides for it.

[TheDirtyHobo]

No, we're going in the first (real) time tonight, just for the experience of the first 50% even if I get absolute confirmation that we couldn't kill the snakes. I'm just trying to plan it out and get as much information as possible so that we aren't wasting too much time and effort.

[Seravi Edalborez]

What's your exact DPS composition then? Like BRD BRD MNK DRG? The bulk of the damage on big snake comes from the suicide Vulnerability Up stacks the little snakes give on death, so caster LB just makes that almost a non-issue because you don't have to worry about damaging the little snakes as much. If little snakes don't die really quick after 2nd divebombs, whoever gets stacks on them will probably still have them when Twintania returns which might kill them. But in a vacuum assuming you can get 4 stacks on big snake in a timely fashion, melee LB should do a huge chunk of damage.

[Hiroishime]

If you can kill small snakes fast enough, the Vulnerability Up debuff will always wore before twintania comes down. So i think you guys need to work out how to bring small snakes down very fast.

[lilbubbles]

Ya, people get the mindset that they need to burn the big snake.. that isn't the case. Killing the big snake is almost never the issue.

You need to kill the small snakes, asap. Don't wait for the lb to go off. Run(sprint if you're a mage) straight from that last divebomb, popping cooldowns/potion on the way, and go to town on them. I stand right on top of the tank too in case I pull aggro. Don't be afraid of getting stacks, embrace it. It adds urgency to the situation

Watch how much time is left on your stacks when Twintana comes back, if you still have stacks up your dps failed on the small snakes not the big one.

[Enygma55]

With a setup with no caster DPS, I would kill 1 snake asap and stagger the 2nd kill maybe 10 sec before the stacks wear off to refresh it. Then you can either LB the 3rd snake while other DPS zergs 4th or try to zerg them both down and LB the big snake.

I would personally do the kill 1 asap > stagger 2nd to refresh stacks > LB 3rd > Zerg 4th > kill big snake. This way the stacks will wear off fast before AP hits and you'll have 1 stack on the 4th snake for zerg.

Once you get in there and understand the mechanics better for your party composition, you'll figure something out.