Twintania downed because FFXIV is so much easier than [insert name here]

[Obsidian]

We cleared last Monday and didn't hit LB3, but we haven't hit LB3 in forever so that was hardly surprising. Nothing really felt different to us. Fireballs didn't seem to be any worse than normal.

If you're four-stacking where you used to three-stack, that could be where your issues lie. I still don't really understand what the purpose of a single-tank strategy is other than to dump a really shitty tank.

[Niiro]

My group is in a very annoying place where we seem to hit like 95% of the LB3 bar just as the second snakes pop and nothing we do seems to help nudge it along just a bit quicker. Sometimes it'll hit 3 just as we're moving into position to LB and we'll get it but most times it's just a little too short and we can't afford to wait for it to finish (as close as it may be).

We tried having people eat plummets in the first phase, tried having the BLM toss out a few Sleeps during UI, tried having 4 players eat fireball (rather than 2 players + 2 pets)....

No noticeable/consistent change in the LB gauge, we're always just a fucking hair away from LB3 when the time comes and it's so goddamn frustrating because having that extra kick makes the transition so much easier.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Oddly enough my group also was able to hit LB3 last week (Monday), just after the re-fixes to coil. Wonder what will happen tonight...

@Niiro, any duplicate jobs in your party? ie. 2 brd or 2 pld?

[Niiro]

Newp, WAR PLD WHM SCH MNK BRD SMN BLM.

[Kaixin]

The only thing I am positively sure of that builds meter is time: see lb building while doing absolutely nothing if you wait before engaging ADS in T2. My personal theory is that this is the only thing that determines LB in t5 (outside of the party composition penalty).

Edit: Nope, scratch that. Just watched 3 videos of pre-2.1 T5 kills, they all reached LB3 at different times.

One thing I did notice while watching tape is that (in addition to LB building due to time) LB looked like it jumps whenever TT finished casting a skill in phase 1 (when DS cast bar finishes but before it hits the MT). It seemed like there was more LB building if the skill did a certain amount of damage.

I also noticed that LB built in T5 in two different ways, 1) the bar adds solid, steady increments of blue and 2) bar will flash and add a larger portion. Looks like this ties into whether or not a skill did a lot of damage to a player, in other words: Twintania casts conflag, bar increases. Player received more than 60%(?) of his HP in 1 hit due to fireball or death sentence? LB flashes and increases. Not 100% sure though.

Edit 2: Actually, instead of LB building after every skill cast, it looks like it builds at a steady rate (a little bit every ~5 seconds) independent of action taken by Twin. It does appear that there's bonus LB built if the victim of an attack is hurt a lot by it. Still not 100% positive on any of this btw.

[Falisa]

One thing to keep in mind is that they did fix the fact that SCH and SMN were counting as a stacked class before 2.16. But we definitely are finding that the LB is building a lot faster than it did from the 2.1 changes.

[Judai]

The only thing I am positively sure of that builds meter is time: see lb building while doing absolutely nothing if you wait before engaging ADS in T2. My personal theory is that this is the only thing that determines LB in t5 (outside of the party composition penalty).

Edit: Nope, scratch that. Just watched 3 videos of pre-2.1 T5 kills, they all reached LB3 at different times.

One thing I did notice while watching tape is that (in addition to LB building due to time) LB looked like it jumps whenever TT finished casting a skill in phase 1 (when DS cast bar finishes but before it hits the MT). It seemed like there was more LB building if the skill did a certain amount of damage.

I also noticed that LB built in T5 in two different ways, 1) the bar adds solid, steady increments of blue and 2) bar will flash and add a larger portion. Looks like this ties into whether or not a skill did a lot of damage to a player, in other words: Twintania casts conflag, bar increases. Player received more than 60%(?) of his HP in 1 hit due to fireball or death sentence? LB flashes and increases. Not 100% sure though.

Edit 2: Actually, instead of LB building after every skill cast, it looks like it builds at a steady rate (a little bit every ~5 seconds) independent of action taken by Twin. It does appear that there's bonus LB built if the victim of an attack is hurt a lot by it. Still not 100% positive on any of this btw.

tons of stuff build LB, damage healed, songs, auto-attacks.

[Hiroishime]

We havent had LB3 in forever at main party (WAR tank) lol, but consistently hit LB3 on mule t5 with PLD tank, we are thinking PLD gets so low sometimes and that builds up LB very fast whereas WAR MT never dipped below half health by a DS.

[Kaixin]

tons of stuff build LB, damage healed, songs, auto-attacks.

Do you know how the limit break system works? If so, please share, because I've never heard of any real evidence that someone has reverse engineered what goes into building LB.

[Judai]

Do you know how the limit break system works? If so, please share, because I've never heard of any real evidence that someone has reverse engineered what goes into building LB.

Watch a video of a fight. Time is clearly not the sole factor, as groups get different amounts of LB at different times and you can clearly see the LB bar tick in varying amounts. I can't be sure of every single action that increases the LB, or what part of an action increases it, but you can clearly and logically conclude certain groups of actions cause the LB bar to tick in varying degrees.

You proposed that LB ticks when you see DS or Fireball kick in but does it tick when the damage is incurred or when it is healed. In the videos I watch, the LB bar seems to have a large tick as the player is healed but regardless either damage taken or healed causes it to fill faster. During our runs, as I began singing songs in certain times, we noticed increases in ticks of LB, when nothing else was happening, as in during the first set of divebombs, the only thing occurring is my Mage's Ballad is restoring MP. Therefore, it seems either my song, or the act of restoring MP, is increasing the LB, as we had less LB after divebombs before I began this routine. Which caused me to sing during the Scourges(foe's) and as we pushed(ballad) into conflag phase as well, and again, we noticed we had filled our LB bar even more by the time we used it, as before we barely hit 2 bars, now we had 2 and a half bars.

Damage done to a monster seems to also increase the LB bar but is it actions or auto-attacks? Again, I can't be sure but most early Titan HM groups would use no actions and only auto-attack Titan in the first stage to try and build LB for the heart. As I never did this, I can't exactly say if it was simply the damage Titan caused/was healed during this time that caused the bar to fill or if the auto-attacks helped fill it as well.

Is it possible I am wrong about any or all of these? Yes, but most of them seem logical based on the evidence that can be found in the videos.

[Deadgye]

Songs affecting LB like that would explain the seemingly extremely random LB differences during our T5 runs. Going to try popping ballad a bit earlier before divebombs and/or keep it out longer, and see if that gives us a consistent level 3.

[Kaixin]

Watch a video of a fight. Time is clearly not the sole factor, as groups get different amounts of LB at different times and you can clearly see the LB bar tick in varying amounts. I can't be sure of every single action that increases the LB, or what part of an action increases it, but you can clearly and logically conclude certain groups of actions cause the LB bar to tick in varying degrees.

You proposed that LB ticks when you see DS or Fireball kick in but does it tick when the damage is incurred or when it is healed. In the videos I watch, the LB bar seems to have a large tick as the player is healed but regardless either damage taken or healed causes it to fill faster. During our runs, as I began singing songs in certain times, we noticed increases in ticks of LB, when nothing else was happening, as in during the first set of divebombs, the only thing occurring is my Mage's Ballad is restoring MP. Therefore, it seems either my song, or the act of restoring MP, is increasing the LB, as we had less LB after divebombs before I began this routine. Which caused me to sing during the Scourges(foe's) and as we pushed(ballad) into conflag phase as well, and again, we noticed we had filled our LB bar even more by the time we used it, as before we barely hit 2 bars, now we had 2 and a half bars.

Damage done to a monster seems to also increase the LB bar but is it actions or auto-attacks? Again, I can't be sure but most early Titan HM groups would use no actions and only auto-attack Titan in the first stage to try and build LB for the heart. As I never did this, I can't exactly say if it was simply the damage Titan caused/was healed during this time that caused the bar to fill or if the auto-attacks helped fill it as well.

Is it possible I am wrong about any or all of these? Yes, but most of them seem logical based on the evidence that can be found in the videos.

Interesting, thanks for sharing your experience. What do you think about the steady 3-second tick for LB (related to the global DoT tick timer maybe)?

Also, I found this video during divebombs where LB is building even without MP song (with two bards, funnily enough). Are you saying that if a song were played, it would increase the tick rate even more? I can see that. Maybe Deadgye can take a closer look at it during his run.

This is a link to a pre-2.1 run where you'll see the LB flash thing I talked about. When the fireball wipes out a WHM, the LB flashes a little bit. Shortly after, DS brings the tank from 3477 to 984 HP, LB flashes and they get a HUGE amount at once. But here I see a SCH get wrecked by fireball in a post-2.1 run and LB does not flash noticeably.

[Kacey]

New-ish around these parts, but from my experience with LB there are "boosts" that occur when you're dipped into critical HP/some sort of danger zone and immediately healed - eg. when you get DSd to double or small triple digits, and then the Lustrate goes off or the cure lands. It's generally accompanied by the boost sound (like when you stun Ifrit's Eruptions). Although my group hasn't beat Twin, I generally clown around in phase 1 when possible (I'm MT) to see if I can get any boosts, as 2 will ensure 3 LB bars @ snakes 100% of the time (no repeated jobs though).

[Grey Jorildyn]

Yea, "heroic actions" we call 'em.

[Obsidian]

I refer to them as "this fucking ability delay..."

[Seravi Edalborez]

-Time (see: waiting around while "engaged" in Turn 2)
-Stunning a TP move (not relevant to Coil, but stunning Ifrit HM Eruptions for example [stun -> *shwick* -> chunk of LB])
-Fight-specific mechanics (killing Ifrit HM nails generates like a whole bar)
-"Fatal heal" (described in above posts, makes a distinct chime-y sound)

Things I know 100% sure build LB.

I agree with Judai's take on songs boosting the rate (I assume because it is a continually refreshing buff and each ~3s reapplication is a minute increase on top of the natural "time" gain).

Titan HM auto-attacking I think was more to just allow for more "time" regen. I don't think it ever boosted the LB rate in and of itself. But that's largely an assumption on my part.

[Obsidian]

I thought Titan HM was a stalling tactic used to let Tumults accumulate damage to be healed to build the LB, for the same reason people stack in front of Twintania to eat Plummet. I also wouldn't be surprised if those fatal heals are only applied to tank roles.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Nah, fatal heals apply to everyone. Even pets. (The things you learn when Eos tanks stuff)

[Drai]

100% sure LB gets a larger boost when a tank under 30% HP gets hit, we tested this by having a PLD run in and grab Twin and all adds, getting as low as possible and popping hallowed ground, watch the LB Bar shoot up to a little over a full bar before duration ended, apparently if you do it right it's possible to get a bar and a half on the pull, but we haven't been able to do it.

[Tymon]

Fatal heals on Eos and Garuda after Fireball was probably the only reason we had LB3 before the recent changes