Another exploit - Wholly Unsecured Database

[Lucavi]

Not really.

The only time anything MMO economy related has ever been taken to court was the reverse of what you'd expect: Blacksnow Interactive v. Mythic Entertainment (this was back in Dark Age of Camelot). Blacksnow sued over Mythic's EULA preventing them from conducting RMT activity. Blacksnow fucked around for a number of years to get Mythic to sweat into a settlement, but it never came to fruition.

I thought EVE had some sort of lawsuit a few years back... I can't remember the specifics...

[Ksandra]

They will only take as much inventory as they can shift before its potentially lost (banned). But since this gil is being created instantly you aquire for immediate demand only.

Unless someone actually involved produces some figures we would be plucking numbers out of the air. However, most people will agree that the figure is likely to be in the tens of thousands at a minimum.

Also, it must be remembered that all the rmt don't work for the same company. As well as the poster mentioning they also sold to private sellers. So it's not really out of the realm of possibilities to get to sell that much.

[Anton]

Also, it must be remembered that all the rmt don't work for the same company. As well as the poster mentioning they also sold to private sellers. So it's not really out of the realm of possibilities to get to sell that much.

Especially at a launch where demand is irrationally high and supply doesn't exist yet.

Until you tell the server to grant you billions of gil

[Hyan]

I can't believe they knew about this @ P4/EA and didn't delay launch and fix this garbage. This is something that can/probably will affect the game for years to come...if it makes it that far. If something as basic as verification is coded so insecurely, its not hard to imagine that there are probably other gaping holes that will need plugging as well. Why does SE insist on going against the grain in every imaginable way possible and having non-standard systems in place for EVERYTHING?

Also wtf Yoshi, you said if you needed to delay you would... I think this is just cause of a "needed delay".

Did they know in P4/EA? The exploit was figured out then by the playerbase but I thought that it hadn't come to SE's attention then yet.

[Fake]

Also, it must be remembered that all the rmt don't work for the same company. As well as the poster mentioning they also sold to private sellers. So it's not really out of the realm of possibilities to get to sell that much.

Yes, it would be nigh on impossible to gauge to overall scale. Taking 1bn gil as a nice easy figure and lowball the total number of users at 500,000 (were reports of over 250k concurrently online users at the beginning of september, when a lot of people still couldn't buy the game due to SE's suspending sales), you would only need 1 in every 500 people to buy 1m to reach the 1bn figure. Given how in your face and easy to access RMT is in 14, the real numbers are probably several orders of magnitude higher.

[Anton]

Did they know in P4/EA? The exploit was figured out then by the playerbase but I thought that it hadn't come to SE's attention then yet.

I bet they just thought "Well this game will be on the PS3. What do we have to worry about security for?"

And left it at that

[Katlan]

It's shitty this has happened to early in the games life, but they will fix it, ban people w/a hammer for all who took advantage of it. If XI could get past RMT Xmas I'm sure 14 will be the same. Just takes time for the money to disperse

[Ksandra]

Did they know in P4/EA? The exploit was figured out then by the playerbase but I thought that it hadn't come to SE's attention then yet.

Throwaway said their accounts got banned, but didn't say when, so ya who knows how long it took them to catch on if they didn't have the system trying to flag this stuff.

Though, I imagine the temp bans that happened recently happened way after they banned the accounts doing it, because they finally came to the conclusion to flush out the extra gil that was put into the system.

It is kinda crazy though they haven't put a fix. But maybe the fix would require a complete system overhaul, so they haven't finished it yet? idkcoding

[Anton]

Throwaway said their accounts got banned, but didn't say when, so ya who knows how long it took them to catch on if they didn't have the system trying to flag this stuff.

Though, I imagine the temp bans that happened recently happened way after they banned the accounts doing it, because they finally came to the conclusion to flush out the extra gil that was put into the system.

It is kinda crazy though they haven't put a fix. But maybe the fix would require a complete system overhaul, so they haven't finished it yet? idkcoding

I've heard responses varying between "This is a quick adjustment to how the server handles packets, shouldn't be a problem" to "This is such a gigantic programming blunder, FF14:ARR will be piss-easy to hack for its entire lifetime due to its coding and would need a full rebuild - again"

I'm no programmer

[Sephiroth]

Has anyone ever been caught/charged for doing this? I doubt 'murica or any other country gives a shit about rmt activities. They happen constantly across all MMOs, and I've never heard of anyone managing to take action against a player outside of Taj. And even then I think he only got a restraining order out of it.

also, I'll just add: holy shit balls this is just wow.

I was thinking more the game destroying hacking than the RMT side of it. This seems pretty big compared to the usual RMT farming and selling. But yeah if people can do whatever the fuck they want to an MMO without fear of anything more serious than a ban then it's hardly surprising people would do this to make a few thousand $. If shit really does hit the fan it could cost SE millions in lost subs, that's more damage than any single RMT could do.

[Hyan]

Well if the fix is something we can't see, like flagging suspicious actions but letting them go through then they just need enough manpower until they can implement the real fix.

They're not standing there doing nothing but who knows just how much of the damage they are able to control.

I bet they just thought "Well this game will be on the PS3. What do we have to worry about security for?"

And left it at that

Yeah ok.

[Waraji]

lol This is the best drama XIV's had so far, judging by the amount of people Browsing the thread. Waiting for this guy to post.

[Niiro]

If SE has known about this since near launch the massive bans/suspensions actually make more sense. Compared to the game crumbling entirely, taking away huge amounts of gil from some legit players without banning them was a small price to pay (for them) to try and control the problem.

The better question is if they've known about this for a while now, why the fuck haven't they done anything about it?

My best guess is the problem is beyond them to solve easily or effectively so they're just biding their time and doing damage control as best they can (ie. terribly) until they can figure out how to computer.

[Patriarch]

This is crazy lol

[Waraji]

Yet another OF topic deleted.

[Damane]

If SE has known about this since near launch the massive bans/suspensions actually make more sense. Compared to the game crumbling entirely, taking away huge amounts of gil from some legit players without banning them was a small price to pay (for them) to try and control the problem.

The better question is if they've known about this for a while now, why the fuck haven't they done anything about it?

My best guess is the problem is beyond them to solve easily or effectively so they're just biding their time and doing damage control as best they can (ie. terribly) until they can figure out how to computer.

i really doubt you can control the amount of dmg that has been done allready, and is prolly STILL being done. All server economics are basicly fucked for the entire existence of FFXIV. If i read that correctly you could basicly pull out ANY item out of thin air. Game has ended before it even started.

[nervosa]

Too soon for?
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2227/ozx1.jpg

tag line can be "we'll get it right some day"

[Tajin]

Yeah I dont see how ANY of you fucks can justify SE banning legit players for anything (anything not involving them), something seriously wrong with ya'll.

And if SE has been aware of this for a while (a while being two+ weeks) either their game was coded by blind retarded sunflowers or they just dont give a fuck and will continue with "ban any account with gil>500k"

[Azninvazion]

Yeah I dont see how ANY of you fucks can justify SE banning legit players for anything (anything not involving them), something seriously wrong with ya'll.

And if SE has been aware of this for a while (a while being two+ weeks) either their game was coded by blind retarded sunflowers or they just dont give a fuck and will continue with "ban any account with gil>500k"

The suspension-gil-removal action makes a lot more sense if the database exploit has been ongoing and SE truly has no current, effective method of tracking and reversing its effects. Since the most harmful effect of the exploit is the generation of gil, they just ban the most egregious offenders and divide everyone else's wallet by 100, and probably will do so again until a real fix comes along.

[Grieverbk]

I bet they just thought "Well this game will be on the PS3. What do we have to worry about security for?"

And left it at that