Summoner / Scholar sort-of in-depth

[Araius]

Splitting hairs here, I know, but I would assume that AA on a mage class would require the same ACC as a melee class? I mean, I doubt you really care if your AA damage is nerfed by 5-10% anyway, but would be interesting if the Accuracy requirement is solely based on class/job and not on action.

[Spider-Dan]

Shield Oath is not a 1.5x modifier, it was tested to originally be 2x and that number was increased with patch 2.1.

So no, they're not comparable.

Not to get too far off track, but if his position is that in practice, Sword Oath nearly keeps up with Shield Oath in hate generation, then pointing out that Shield Oath generates more enmity than he thinks it does just makes the case for Sword Oath (read: AA) even stronger.

[Seravi Edalborez]

I originally called out Sword Oath because people think it magically sucks, when it's actually not that bad. In the exact same way people think AA'ing on SMN/SCH is unimportant/sucky when it's actually not that bad.

[Niiro]

Not to get too far off track, but if his position is that in practice, Sword Oath nearly keeps up with Shield Oath in hate generation, then pointing out that Shield Oath generates more enmity than he thinks it does just makes the case for Sword Oath (read: AA) even stronger.

I've done enough PLD-PLD co-tanking to know that Sword Oath doesn't compete with Shield Oath in terms of hate generation.

[Yukari]

Didn't it used to compete in terms of hate generation before they buffed Shield Oath?

[Indomitable Will]

Shield Oath is not a 1.5x modifier, it was tested to originally be 2x and that number was increased with patch 2.1.

So no, they're not comparable.

Actually, they specified in the release notes that the modifier (when it was changed in 2.1) was being changed from a 1.2 mod to a 1.5 mod...you have to be an idiot if you think the extra AA from sword oath is creating as much enmity than a more than 100% boost in base threat from what YOU think was/is the shield oath mod lol (which the testing that showed a 2x mod was debunked I'm fairly sure somewhere, here on BG) . I'll look up the notes verbatim when i get a minute after work so you have more than just my word for it.

edit: wasn't in the patch notes, might have been in the live letter...moar investigations.

[MisterBob]

Didn't it used to compete in terms of hate generation before they buffed Shield Oath?

Used to be bugged when you switched from Shield -> Sword. You'd keep the enmity multiplier and gain the damage of Sword.

[Niiro]

Actually, they specified in the release notes that the modifier (when it was changed in 2.1) was being changed from a 1.2 mod to a 1.5 mod...you have to be an idiot if you think the extra AA from sword oath is creating as much enmity than a more than 100% boost in base threat from what YOU think was/is the shield oath mod lol (which the testing that showed a 2x mod was debunked I'm fairly sure somewhere, here on BG) . I'll look up the notes verbatim when i get a minute after work so you have more than just my word for it.

edit: wasn't in the patch notes, might have been in the live letter...moar investigations.

Afaik SE has never given any specific numbers to the hate multipliers of either Shield Oath or Defiance.

All that we have is from player testing and every source I've ever come across listed the original values as x2 for both.

The 2.1 notes mentioned the values were adjusted and the general consensus among players was that it appeared to be increased, but I don't know of anyone that's nailed down the new values.

[Fondue]

is the ffxivapp enmity parser not exact?

[Fereydoon]

Spoiler: show

http://imgur.com/dTsFcPI

What I'm currently wearing on SMN.

What should I spend my Sols on? I was gonna go body to save myths, but maybe there's a better upgrade? I also didn't cap the first week, so I'd be at 900 this week.

[SamanosukeShiva]

If you're gonna down T7 soon, probably save for weapon. What's your accuracy at? if you have enough acc for coil then I guess body is an ok choice.

[Taim Meich]

Is it normal for Garuda to have such low DPS on Levi EX? Mine is in the 50-60 DPS range, while on T5 I managed to have it on 85-95 DPS. I mean, the whole fight is designed for the SMN to shine, but the Garuda part has me worried. Maybe it's just the constant stops in DPs during the dives?

[SamanosukeShiva]

normal with that much downtime

[Fereydoon]

If you're gonna down T7 soon, probably save for weapon. What's your accuracy at? if you have enough acc for coil then I guess body is an ok choice.

Probably not gonna down T7 soon, 476 ACC without food in that set, so I could go for body and not hurt. But I'm still rocking I70 Hands/Belt/Ring. Still go for body? Probably gonna go for allagan hands/belt and vortex ring?

[Seravi Edalborez]

I'm facing similar gear dilemmas with my (neglected) SMN alt and my gear is/was pretty close (lacking in acc because I derped out and traded in all my darklight for seals even if I was using it):

Spoiler: show

On suggestion from another SMN I went with Myth legs, plan on getting Titan earring / Garuda ring to supplement accuracy, and bought i100 ring with sol tomes already. Will then be 465 acc w/Allagan book, or 492 with i95 Levi book.

[Stumps]

Does anyone have a link to some of the more recent tests and data involving damage calculations? I know that at about mid 2.1 there was some testing done to indicate that determination wasn't as crap compared to critical chance as we originally thought (which resulted in a revamped SMN BiS list) but I can't find any information about it. I was looking so I could determine if http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/M8AV was better or worse than http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/M8BL trading 35 crit for 44 det

[SamanosukeShiva]

Probably not gonna down T7 soon, 476 ACC without food in that set, so I could go for body and not hurt. But I'm still rocking I70 Hands/Belt/Ring. Still go for body? Probably gonna go for allagan hands/belt and vortex ring?

nah go replace i70, thought u were full i90 lol

[Binkie]

So someone in my free company has been saying Virus increases damage taken on the mob it hits. I do not think it does, as clearly the description does not elude to that. Is there any truth to that, or are people spreading old FFXI mindsets, my stats vs mob stats?

[TheDirtyHobo]

Does anyone have a link to some of the more recent tests and data involving damage calculations? I know that at about mid 2.1 there was some testing done to indicate that determination wasn't as crap compared to critical chance as we originally thought (which resulted in a revamped SMN BiS list) but I can't find any information about it. I was looking so I could determine if http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/M8AV was better or worse than http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/M8BL trading 35 crit for 44 det

I'm almost positive that 1:1, det is the best secondary stat you can get, hands down, for all jobs. I know there are arguments against it due to crit scaling on BRD and SCH, but those are priority arguments on a non 1:1 scale. The only argument I would give any sort of credence to is parry on tanks, and even then I think doing more damage ultimately helps out more and it's just a group playstyle choice.

[Sodalitas]

Does anyone have a link to some of the more recent tests and data involving damage calculations? I know that at about mid 2.1 there was some testing done to indicate that determination wasn't as crap compared to critical chance as we originally thought (which resulted in a revamped SMN BiS list) but I can't find any information about it. I was looking so I could determine if http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/M8AV was better or worse than http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/M8BL trading 35 crit for 44 det

The reddit thread is at http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ge_simulations and it contains links to his simulations.

[deleted item sets based on inaccurate Accuracy requirements]