Dev Tracker: Discussion

[scaevola]

Except there were like 10 years of FFXI where we did not especially care how much health MNK had, and then we went MNK crazy for a year because Delve really favors them and Oat is easy to get, and we're now on to RNG with AAs. MNK is a placeholder here; the FotM has always changed based on what event's hot and that's especially been the case post-75 now that our events have actual mechanics other than tank-and-spank or kite.

Ultimately nobody can say for sure what impact this will have on metagame because we have no idea what the JP enhancements will actually do. "Berserk damage +3" is all well and good but that's just phase 1. What we can say for sure is that 6 million is a lot of fucking XP, and to think that people are going to grind that on jobs they don't like is...probably assuming too much.

But hey, if you want to spend 100 hours grinding mobs in Adoulin on WHM at the rather brisk pace of 60k/hour solo, knock yourself out.

[Anomie]

It's not to hard to envision an 18 person party (outside abyssea) with 6 people and 12 bots/autofollows on jobs they "want" to play job-pointing the shit out of the 12 autofollowmulemnks.

a ton of people will be completely capped out the same day, if it holds any relevance to actually making improvements.

I mean shit, you can have a program grind your exp for you... there's a dozen of em... how many people don't use them...?

[geno3302]

"We can't speak to specifics on the potency of Cait Sith's actions, but as you can see, they were designed with the role of support in mind and like Carbuncle, the amount of MP required to keep her out is comparatively low. Cait Sith will debut with actions up to level 75, but we're planning to introduce more abilities for higher levels, but for now we don't have a date we can share.

We look forward to our summoners getting a chance to try out their new feline friend and gathering more feedback!"

That's worse then I expected, and I had no hope in the first place. I couldn't imagine anything worse then another diabolos or fenrir...but I guess I forgot carbuncle existed...

[Tarage]

God dammit SE. I wanted a light avatar that could at least do better than Carbuncle.

Why do I even bother...

[geno3302]

God dammit SE. I wanted a light avatar that could at least do better than Carbuncle.

Why do I even bother...

The only thing that could make it even 1/2 useful is if Level ? Holy is large 20 AoE like in the BCNM and actually does good dmg so I can cleave shit. Ramuhs AoE is fairly small range. I'd at least enjoy that but still worthless in the big picture

[dasva]

Not really sure I understand the low perp rate comment. Getting min perp rate has been trivial for some time now.

[geno3302]

Not really sure I understand the low perp rate comment. Getting min perp rate has been trivial for some time now.

I'm not sure I understand how cait is a support avatar when the only buff it can give is reraise and the only support action it has is raise

[dasva]

I'm not sure I understand how cait is a support avatar when the only buff it can give is reraise and the only support action it has is raise

Clearly support means picking people up off the ground after they die lol. Once again goes to show you they don't really understand how the game is played

[Alkar]

I'm not sure I understand how cait is a support avatar when the only buff it can give is reraise and the only support action it has is raise

Debuffing is also considered support and that's what the rest of her BPs do except for like.. 2. In theory at least, I'm sure the accuracy on these things will suck as usual.

[Draylo]

They should have adjusted xp in campaign, that would have been a more fun way to get exp :/

[geno3302]

Debuffing is also considered support and that's what the rest of her BPs do except for like.. 2. In theory at least, I'm sure the accuracy on these things will suck as usual.

Assuming TP reset happens w/o the need for sleep to land (cause it will never land on anything that matters) it can only happen ever 38 seconds....basically worthless.

Amnesia/silence will never land on anything, if it does it'll wear off any boss in 1/2 a second and be totally meaningless unless you get super lucky and manage to get it to go off right as it charges a TP move magically stunning it.

I'm not seeing any functional debuffs. Leviathan and Shiva are better support than cait. Leviathan has AoE heal+Erase, Attack down, and slowga (that never lands ever) Shiva has EVD down and sleepga (that never lands on bosses) both have debuffs that are infinitely better then what cait has to bring to the table. Both are also avatars that can actually deal damage, unlike carbuncle and now cait.


Edit: Making another carbuncle is really just adding insult to injury. The BP choices are bad enough, no reason to gimp damage even more by making it on the level of carbuncle.

[Spira]

What I don't get is why people bitch and complain when they get a new avatar that DOESNT do what an existing one does already. Instead of asking for carbuncle+, why not just bitch more for them to buff Carby? Why ask for something that does the exact same thing?

My feeling on capacity points Is that they'll probably work differently than exp. perhaps it's base rate might be 1:1 exp, but chain multiplier might work differently such that CP gains might be 2x or 3x. They have more free reign to play with it cos it isn't tied to exp. I find that the 300 JP limit seems ridiculously high if it follows the exp ratio 1:1. You need to cap merits 10 times to even get to that. So it's either an arbitrarily high cap or will likely come easier than merits

Also not willing to rule out the usefulness of casts debuffs until tested. It's pessimism like this that gets people to not test stuff. Better to take a wait, test and then see approach. If leviathans slowga could land with good skill gear, I wouldn't rule out a less common debuff like amnesia so soon

[Sechs]

The only way to stop that cycle is to make jobs with inconsequential distinctions or content that makes these distinctions inconsequential.

Which is exactely what happened in WoW with the homogeneization they started with patch 3.0.
But in WoW it had a meaning, a purpose, it all made sense because of the different environments and game modes.
You can't expect that to happen in FFXI and honestly I wouldn't like it.
But one thing is "making so every DD can be used in any circumstance with negligible performance differences", which is an extreme and I don't think we should wish for that.
Another thing is hoping for them to make so a couple more of jobs (but not all) can be used with same performance results under the same circumstances.

Altough, honestly, sometimes it's hard to tell when it's a real problem with game mechanics for different jobs, and when it's a matter of players' mentality (which is tipically very stagnant and tends to use the same things over and over as if they're the only things efficiently possible to do)

[Sechs]

and it's not likely to even be close to the amount of JP somebody is going to need to cap a job.

Too early to know this, but if they really follow the merit points model, then for the last upgrades of JPs you're going to need 200 job points.
Think like it could be
1>2>3>4>5>6>7>8>9>10>15>20>30>40>50>60>70>80>90>10 0>110>120>130>140>150>160>170>180>190>200
If it's a model like this for all upgrades... it's gonna be INTENSE, to say the least.

In old FFXI this would have been a very very very very likely scenario. Long term grinding goals.
But this is a different FFXI that we're playing today, so I have no clue which way they're gonna go.
I'm seriously afraid that the overall cap you can hold for a single job is that high because of the cost for the last upgrades
I cannot see any other logical reason to make it that high.

[Sechs]

They should have adjusted xp in campaign, that would have been a more fun way to get exp :/

Clearly they don't want to drive people away from what they judge should be the main content-focus for players.
At the same time though, they want to make it less frustrating for those who absolutely do.

In other words: They do not want to incentivate Campaign, but they wanted to make it more enjoyable for those who really really want to do it anyway.

[Ligray]

Matsui posted March update info:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...334#post497334

Yay I can be a sandworm in monstrosity.

[Sechs]

Hmmmm... a possible delay with the implementation of Delve, it seems.

[Prothescar]

Amoprhs!!!! \o/


reduction of AA KI costs is... a bad thing actually. will likely be overflowing with merits from the JP system anyway, this would only make it even harder to get in and fight the NMs.

[Revati]

Hopefully they'll fix formless strikes to let mnk melee while standing at 20 =o.

[Sechs]

Amoprhs!!!! \o/


reduction of AA KI costs is... a bad thing actually. will likely be overflowing with merits from the JP system anyway, this would only make it even harder to get in and fight the NMs.

I agree, but at the same time they should increase the max number of merits you can hold.
30 is preposterous when KIs cost 20 and one even costs 30.