Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Byrthnoth]

They need to merge servers. I do not give any shits about the Delve instrument.

HMP availability is the highest it had been in months. Cinders are going for half what they did two months ago. 99ing Daurd is very reasonable at the moment.

[Sechs]

"more reasonable" than 2 months ago doesn't necessarily mean "very reasonable".
Altough yes, from the point of view of a player with multiple Mythics I might as well accept the definition of "very reasonable"

[Anomie]

They need to merge servers. I do not give any shits about the Delve instrument.

TOTALLY agree.

HMP availability is the highest it had been in months.

"Available" at double the value =/= More "available" really. They're there, sure, with half the availability due to cost. Semantics etc.

Cinders are going for half what they did two months ago. 99ing Daurd is very reasonable at the moment.

Cinders should've NEVER been as high as they were to begin with. The balls on people thinking something VERY easily obtained was worth at one point up to 3million each.

[lubybismark]

Yeah Sechs, I agree with you. If you can use both instruments for two additional songs then it would be fine lol, I don't think that will work though.

I sure hope you can use both for 2 additional songs but that would only make brd stronger which I think they want to avoid. The new harp would likely mean there is no point in making a dharp unless you 99 it. Kind of disappointing considering Bea shield doesn't replace ochain but the new instrument would replace harp ... Here is to hoping that they stack I guess.

[Alistrianna]

Cinders should've NEVER been as high as they were to begin with. The balls on people thinking something VERY easily obtained was worth at one point up to 3million each.

I could be wrong but wasn't the cinder price absurd because somebody was snatching up all cinders to afterglow their empyrean?

[Fwahm]

Letting the two instruments stack would be asinine; there's no way SE is going to undermine the entire reason they're introducing the +1 song instrument.

[dasva]

I sure hope you can use both for 2 additional songs but that would only make brd stronger which I think they want to avoid. The new harp would likely mean there is no point in making a dharp unless you 99 it. Kind of disappointing considering Bea shield doesn't replace ochain but the new instrument would replace harp ... Here is to hoping that they stack I guess.

Well it only really replaces the 90 harp... the difference here being is harp gets even more awesome at 99 while ochain gains pretty much nothing. Also I wouldn't really use the numbers they gave for dmg blocked. Probably just example values given considering it doesn't correlate to the testing I've seen. Iirc killedar actually will block more dmg on lower level content or with reprisal up. And don't think bea+1 has been tested but based on the increase in def on it and the testing of the nq it looks fairly promising too. It's to the point where if you don't already have an ochain I can't really see advocating making one since for just a few mil you can get comparable to slightly better and next ilvl up will be flat out better probably. What they really need to do is go back and add another 5-10 def to the shield for the 95 and 99 trials.

[Sechs]

I don't see it happening, unless they make it stack with Daur 90/95 but not with Daur 99, and that sounds difficult to code and not particularly likely to happen.
Seriously though, unless they do something more for the availability of Cinders and especially HMPs, it's a big slap in the face to Daubla owners.

Wouldn't be the first slap in the face to players of course, but still it's painful to see these things happen, whichever side of the fence you're currently sittin on.

[Phillymoool]

woulnt the new +1 instrumentbe better than 90 daub , since it wont have the song duration on it. Make it easier to overwrite the 3rd song?

[dannyl]

+1 song instrument, horray. my procrastination continues to pay off. I see no reason to endure the ridiculous HMP trial.

[Fwahm]

Why exactly is a +1 song instrument a slap in the face for Daurdabla owners? The 90 version, which is all you need for +1, isn't particularly hard to get, especially at 99. If they replaced the 99 version, I could see justifiable rage, but just the 90 version? That's just silly.

[Yugl]

woulnt the new +1 instrumentbe better than 90 daub , since it wont have the song duration on it. Make it easier to overwrite the 3rd song?

The devs have said they're removing the overwrite/duration issue, so the new instrument would still be worse than Daurdabula.

[Malithar]

Why exactly is a +1 song instrument a slap in the face for Daurdabla owners? The 90 version, which is all you need for +1, isn't particularly hard to get, especially at 99. If they replaced the 99 version, I could see justifiable rage, but just the 90 version? That's just silly.

This. <99 RME owners went through this exact same thing all throughout Adoulin until 119 RMEs became available. You don't even have to 119 your harp (nor can you, that's the point), just get it to 99 and bam, it's back to being good.

And it's not like we haven't known about this for months, if something's been discussed enough internally that they feel comfortable telling us that they're discussing it, then there's a pretty solid chance we're going to see it come to fruition, at some point.

If anything, I think this should give them for of a stable plate to balance content on. Prior to an easily acquired +1 song instrument, what'd they balance content on Brd wise? I'm sure they didn't balance it for Brd/Cor swapping parties rocking 12 songs/rolls. Maybe at least now that Brds can be expected to have 3 songs, they could balance content going further on the notion that we'll have at least 6 songs available to us, or 8 songs in a zerg situation with their SP2.

[Sechs]

Uhm, I don't think a lot of people complained because their level 90 Verethragna or Kannagi or Ukon stopped being za best post SoA because they weren't before either.
The cries came mostly from people who had the lv99 version, and that's because the game released a much better version (insanely better) of those weapons which you could obtain very fast.
Even today with the 119 weapons, the level of power of the megaboss version is very close, in a few cases they're even better than the RME.
That's the current situation, and I think it's more or less balanced and enjoyable.

It's not the same with Daurdabla which is a job-changing item that brings utility. It's insanely unbalanced.
As I mentioned several times, since they started mentioning the +1 instrument (I didn't expect it to be released already btw), we can only welcome anything that tries to close the gap between normal BRDs and Dau99 BRD.
But at the same time, they should totally do something to ease the 90-99 trials, if not for all Empy weapons, at least for Harp.
That's because you can't compare the two situations.
Here you have an Empyreal weapon (harp 99) which alone makes a job do what two jobs would do. It's like having a Monk that does exactely 2x the damage that an Oatixur Monk would do.
This alone is a very big difference.
The new added instrument will not be better than the 99 version (like it was for Megaboss weapons compared to RME, but even other 113 weapons and sometimes the 106 ones from WKRs), and it will be "only" 25% better than a normal brd.
It's a starting point and I'm happy, but it's not nearly enough to what has been done for the other RME weapons.

Even if you compare it to Ochain, the most similar RME to Harp, it's not the same.
On one hand you have added shields which are "almost" the same as Ochain (which, by the way, makes hardly a difference between 90 or 99 version) but he detains his position, the new ones just close the gap (thumb up).
On the other hand you have an instrument which, as far as we know, will be exactely the same as the 90 version, and nowhere close to the 99 (altough of course it's better than the initial situation)

I don't really see the two things comparable.
To make a comparison, I had to put way less effort into getting my Relics than to get my Daubla (altough probably the situation is much better nowadays with the reduced competition on T2 pops and likely cheaper prices for the PIs)

[Damane]

I don't see it happening, unless they make it stack with Daur 90/95 but not with Daur 99, and that sounds difficult to code and not particularly likely to happen.
Seriously though, unless they do something more for the availability of Cinders and especially HMPs, it's a big slap in the face to Daubla owners.

Wouldn't be the first slap in the face to players of course, but still it's painful to see these things happen, whichever side of the fence you're currently sittin on.

why is it a big slap in the face? i mean empy weapons lvl 90 are trash too unless you 99 them, i dont see the reason why that shouldnt be the case for lvl 90 harp, want your 90 harp to be usefull again? 99 it, like every other empy/relic/mythic holder, no reason why brd should get a free pass, in the case of weapons they had to even ilvl 119 them to make them usefull again. every relic/mythic/empy has to take the struggle from lvl 90 to ilvl 119 ecxept for harp and ochain, aegis to be usefull, i dont see why this shouldnt be the case for those 3 either, it would actually tell you who the career brds are and who arent.

[Sechs]

why is it a big slap in the face? i mean empy weapons lvl 90 are trash too unless you 99 them, i dont see the reason why that shouldnt be the case for lvl 90 harp

Thing is, it has quite been the case for Harp until today? Unlike 90 weapons which have never been since they added the 95 trials.

want your 90 harp to be usefull again? 99 it

And that's the thing.
While the recent influx of VW spam did plenty of good for Cinders (partially for HMPs too), it's still quite a feat to do the 90-99 trials nowadays.
Surely you don't want to compare the performance difference between getting an Empy weapon to 99/119 (compared to the other currently available options), Ochain 90-99 and Harp 90-99
I'm sure you can see there's a big difference in performance and there's not a shared model for all of them?

[dasva]

While there is a big gain from 99 dura vs none I wouldn't say it's comparable to a DD doing double dmg. Sure you can or could really maintain twice as many songs but tue gains from the 3rd and 4th song wont be as much as the first 2. And now with clarion call it's even closer unless tou zoning a bit

[Sechs]

To further explain my point of view on the thing, as I did many times in the past.
Daurdabla 99 is a retardedly broken item. Daur 90 a bit less (25% less!) but it's broken too.
I can only welcome with open arms an item that tries to close the gap between having it and not having it, thumb up for adding a +1 song instrument.
lv90 users have nothing to complain (more than many other players had to in the past at least). Their lv90 Daubla will still be useful, which couldn't really be said for lv99 RME when SoA came out with its ilevel weapons.

I'm happy they're doing this, it's one step in the right direction.
My complaint is that there has to be another step to close the new gap which will be the only one remaining, and that is between 3 songs (wether newinstr/daubla99) and Daubla99.
Making so that the 90-99 trial becomes more reasonable (which doesn't mean "free 99"), whichever way they decide to achieve that, is imho the best way to follow this first step they're doing with this instrument (without requiring a nerf on Daubla99, which I think would be out of place this late, they should've done it long time ago, now it's too late)
I can't think of any other way to furtherly close the gap.

[Sechs]

While there is a big gain from 99 dura vs none I wouldn't say it's comparable to a DD doing double dmg.

My comparison came from this simple example
1x Daur99 BRD = 2x no-daur BRD.
It's like having a pt with 7 players instead of 6, where two of them play the BRD role.

Hence, from the "2 jobs into one" assumption, I went to the "2x DDs in place of 1" example (or 2x Damage). Which was just a silly example of course, but Daur99 is THAT broken, seriously.
Tell me which other RME can even remotedly do somethin close that. Not many. At least not between the weapons that I can think of, we could argue about the "utility" ones of course. (Yag, Aegis, Ochain etc)

[NynJa]

HMP availability is the highest it had been in months. Cinders are going for half what they did two months ago. 99ing Daurd is very reasonable at the moment.

Thats just a byproduct of rejuvinating VW with synth mats being used for relic upgrades. That will die off, quickly.


I dont want a server merge, as long as the prime content is dealing with "hands of darkness" issues, that needs to be fixed first. No point compressing more people into events that are maxed out.