Dev Tracker: Discussion

[NynJa]

I cant find the post, but I believe that 124 worms have 240 int, and each level jumps by 10, so 126 worms have 260 int.

Going at mage stats, how much INT do you gain from upgrading hagondes (ilvl113) to hagondes +1 (119)? +16 INT, in 6 ilvls. Whereas in two levels, worms jumped by 20.

Is this a byproduct of looking at the wrong stat? Perhaps theres a tier jump in ilvl?

Total HP+84 MP+9 STR+20 DEX+30 VIT+30 AGI+25 INT+26 MND+30 CHR+32 Accuracy+2 Attack+1 Racc+1 Evasion+104 Magic Evasion+84 "Magic Def. Bonus"+9 Haste+6
PDT and Enmity were unchanged, and DW was tested to be unchanged as well
This is the entire Thurndault set from 100(I think) to 109.

So at most we get 3 stat points per level, over an entire set of ilvl gear, which is nowhere near mobs gaining 10 stat points per level.

[Alistrianna]

It also doesn't help that our skill based buffs stopped scaling past 500 normal skill or 600 combined except in rare cases, such as GEO spells and Scherzo from BRD. Instead of giving us that magic accuracy skill trait on weapons they should have instead gave Magic Skill+ and added new tiers for players to reach with their magic and also added to magic accuracy.

[Damane]

I cant find the post, but I believe that 124 worms have 240 int, and each level jumps by 10, so 126 worms have 260 int.

Going at mage stats, how much INT do you gain from upgrading hagondes (ilvl113) to hagondes +1 (119)? +16 INT, in 6 ilvls. Whereas in two levels, worms jumped by 20.

Is this a byproduct of looking at the wrong stat? Perhaps theres a tier jump in ilvl?

Total HP+84 MP+9 STR+20 DEX+30 VIT+30 AGI+25 INT+26 MND+30 CHR+32 Accuracy+2 Attack+1 Racc+1 Evasion+104 Magic Evasion+84 "Magic Def. Bonus"+9 Haste+6
PDT and Enmity were unchanged, and DW was tested to be unchanged as well
This is the entire Thurndault set from 100(I think) to 109.

So at most we get 3 stat points per level, over an entire set of ilvl gear, which is nowhere near mobs gaining 10 stat points per level.

i think you arent reading what i am saying, SE said they adjusted woh gate mobs etc and made them stronger for PT setups if you want to do Job points in a merit style fashion. you get 300 points per kill in a pt environment. do not compare any lvl a mob has in adoulin with anything previous. use the /check command and it will tell you if your accuracy sucks or doesnt. seriously i dont see whats so hard about that.

I just went ahead on woh gates to see how much m.acc i would need to nuke reliable on anything remotly hard. i didnt even need to swap all of my MAB gear out for m.acc gear to get a decent 80% non resist nuke rate. granted my tier 1 nukes only did 1k dmg~ compared to being uset for 1.7k, but thats because they have alot of INT. with all my m.acc gear on i barely got any nuke resists at all. (but nuke dmg droped then to 600-700 for tier 1 nukes).

you really should go try out a full acc set on a melee, maybe it helps (combined with a brd and sushi), you can get like 20-30 acc on each major slot piece with the new delve pieces and their augments, add some decent back piece neck ammo grip thats another 50 acc, while prolly still maintaining caped haste. now add rings and earrings and you are looking at ~200 acc just form gear, not counting in weapons or any ilvl DEX vomit. people need to stop thinking about STP DA and other stuff when facing such eneyms and just focus on Haste and accuracy in the first place.
people couldnt go out all DA and STP in the olde days either without takeing a major hit in their accuracy parse. you needed to find a balance.

[CDF]

'sup level 119 Tupsimati vs other ilevel options.

Anyway on "average" whoring out MAB and such yields more damage than whoring out magic accuracy unless magic accuracy is really shit (if "average" magic damage even matters), so half-measures are puzzling

[Damane]

It also doesn't help that our skill based buffs stopped scaling past 500 normal skill or 600 combined except in rare cases, such as GEO spells and Scherzo from BRD. Instead of giving us that magic accuracy skill trait on weapons they should have instead gave Magic Skill+ and added new tiers for players to reach with their magic and also added to magic accuracy.

I dont see the point here, brd buffs geo buffs dont seem weak at all. otherwise you would have a whiff fest in delve 2.0 and AAs. I think they accounted for that. and if you come now wiht the AA VD argument, that one is void, because they said those were made in mind with specific setups, not to mention that most of them got cleared with a melee strat.

[Damane]

'sup level 119 Tupsimati vs other ilevel options.

Anyway on "average" whoring out MAB and such yields more damage than whoring out magic accuracy unless magic accuracy is really shit (if "average" magic damage even matters), so half-measures are puzzling

M.acc is really needed on those worms, trying to nuke them with my MAB+ set resulted in a 90% resist rate. and non resisted nukes were doing like 1.2k-1.3k. dmg. so the trade of for m.acc and haveing a 80% hit rate for 900-1k dmg seemed a good compromise to me

ok granted that tuspimati gives me more 50.macc, but thats exactly the amount of m.acc i left out to get almost no resists in the hybrid mab macc set. (didnt swap out hagondes legs and head for artsieq legs (30 macc) and artsieq hat (30 macc)

i swaped in my earring slots ring slots for m.acc, swaped hagondes coat for artsieq jubbah (10 mab 30 m.acc) and got rid of the maniacus sash (-10 macc), and swaped Umbani feet out for artsieq boots (30 m.acc), so I gave up like 60 mab~ and soem INT for ~80 macc for my hybrid m.acc + mab nuke set.

[Alistrianna]

Think he was saying you are using a weapon with clearly superior magic acc (+255 from skill and +30 from the other bonus ) which heaviliy skews your results vs the person with the next best thing (+228, no other bonuses).

EDIT: I somehow missed the fact that you accounted for that.

[CDF]

M.acc is really needed on those worms, trying to nuke them with my MAB+ set resulted in a 90% resist rate. and non resisted nukes were doing like 1.2k-1.3k. dmg. so the trade of for m.acc and haveing a 80% hit rate for 900-1k dmg seemed a good compromise to me

You said the magic evasion boost involving rehashed battlefields on D/VD mode is "beyond retarded and not justified" so I'm not sure why you don't think it's the same for this, since the scaling of INT and magic evasion seems to be disproportionate to level increase as is the case with the rehashed battlefields. Thus these mobs are not worthwhile to target for capacity point farming, which exist only for this purpose as they intentionally jacked up mob stats in Dho and Woh and actually eliminated the only sustainable Umbril one-shot solo merit camp in the game that I know of (not that SE intended Umbrils to be a target for solo nuker EXP).

Level 99 worms have 124 INT. Level 112 Metalcruncher Worms had 204 INT. Level 123 Void Worms may have 281 INT. I don't know what INT worms in Woh Gates have now since I'm not getting someone just to cast Etudes and Boost-INT on me. So instead of jacking up magic evasion (as a surrogate for level correction), they seem to be jacking up both magic evasion and INT. It's unprecedented to have putatively soloable mobs (based on the traditional level comparison) have INT greater than your own. Again, I'm not the only one puzzled by mob scaling relative to equipment scaling, but ultimately it doesn't matter to me since the least worst option is to look elsewhere for a more "efficient" alternative at soloing EXP (and I have).

[NynJa]

i think you arent reading what i am saying, SE said they adjusted woh gate mobs etc and made them stronger for PT setups if you want to do Job points in a merit style fashion. you get 300 points per kill in a pt environment. do not compare any lvl a mob has in adoulin with anything previous. use the /check command and it will tell you if your accuracy sucks or doesnt. seriously i dont see whats so hard about that.

I'm reading it, and it makes no sense. So in 3 months from now, when the next batch of content is release, theyre going to adjust the stats of every mob in adoulin to account for level correction? Dumbest shit ever.

M.acc is really needed on those worms, trying to nuke them with my MAB+ set resulted in a 90% resist rate. and non resisted nukes were doing like 1.2k-1.3k. dmg. so the trade of for m.acc and haveing a 80% hit rate for 900-1k dmg seemed a good compromise to me

You have a fucking Tupsimati and you're saying you STILL need a "decked out macc set" to only have an 80% hit rate. Once again, if you're in full ilvl119 gear, these worms are 4 levels above you, presuming you mean Void worms. I think WoH worms are at most 124-126. Thats 5-7 levels. At 75, when blm's were soloing puddings for merits, they werent gearing in macc to land nukes, and these mobs were 79-81...hey, 4-6 levels. They had SOME macc, usually when the trade off of MAB was not sufficient enough, or the MAB gear came with macc as well. Now, to "account for level correction", SE supercharged these mobs with stats where you need a Tupsimati AND a decked out macc set to STILL get resisted 20% of the time. So if you DONT have a SCH mythic, and your macc set is great, but not perfect, you're going to wind up with a lot of resists.

I dont know how else to say "thats fucked up".


I dont know how else to explain that mob's are gaining ~10 stats per level whereas players are gaining 2-3 stats per level. So when we finally upgrade from ilvl119 and move to ilvl125, the base gear will give us an additional 15 INT. And the worms that are still 5-7 levels above us, are going to gain 50-70 int.

That does not make sense, that is fucked up.

[Byrthnoth]

They just confirmed that INT has no effect on Blind, eh?

[CoreyX]

It would still affect magic accuracy but yeah. lol @ poison damage being their priority to fix enfeebling. Really?

[Kincard]

If you think about it you can understand where they're coming from, Slow II is nearly a 40% slow when it's capped out, which is a very powerful effect. The accuracy- and paralyze effects are as potent as they always have been because they're either % based or might as well be (because accuracy converts over to %). That means these effects can be adjusted just by designing content in a specific way so that certain enfeebles are useful in this or that fight.

Poison, on the other hand, is becoming weaker and weaker because enemies will continue to have higher HP values, and making it ilevel-dependent is the only way to let it keep up and have the same level of potency as our strength increases.

[Fwahm]

If normal damage was a bigger threat, then Slow would be at useful as it sounds in theory. At least Paralyze can stop nukes as well. Dakuwaqa and AAHM are the only recent NM mobs I can think of where their physicals are as close to as much of a threat as their TP moves (HM on non-PLDs, at least).

[arus2001]

Part of me looks at the worm INT thing and thinks, "SE doesn't want mages soloing them anymore..." So, I dunno, comparisons to other similar level mobs?

As for enfeebles, yeah, there's not much they can do with Slow, Para, Blind, or Silence. I'll still say that they need to toss additional new/existing enfeebles into RDM's arsenal, perhaps even with light damage components akin to certain BLU spells. A Poison revamp is something that's definitely been needed since before the cap increase, though, but I fear was deliberately kept off the table because RDM was god or something at the time. Splitting Gravity's -Eva and -Movement effect would also be a nice touch so the former could at least land independently and last a decent duration.

But who am I kidding, we all know they'll buff Poison for DRK's sake.

[dasva]

Given this recent talk about how ridiculously high mob stats are and how much faster they are going up than ours I'm not really sure what to make of the dev post. Yeah we all know dmnd effects slow/para potency and gearing for that is fine in theory. But assuming mnd is rising like those worms int you'll have a hard time even getting more mnd than the mob letting alone capping dmnd and that's on xp mobs lol. I mean we are talking about 300-350 mnd to cap slow on non nms.... Back at 75 a goor rdm could cap slow on most worthwhile nms with good mnd sets

[Fwahm]

I've got about 295 MND in my enfeebling set, and I could make some improvements if I really wanted. It's not super hard to get really high MND. SE probably just doesn't expect you to cap dMND on every single NM you fight.

[dasva]

The problem is these aren't nms... they are regular mobs only a few levels higher than us. And the things that these debuffs would really worthwhile on at least as far as most current potency based debuffs are good at all would be those things that have even more lol.

[NynJa]

I've got about 295 MND in my enfeebling set, and I could make some improvements if I really wanted. It's not super hard to get really high MND. SE probably just doesn't expect you to cap dMND on every single NM you fight.

And how much macc?

Like dasva said, this is fodder, not NMs. Sorry, this is FIELD fodder, not battlefield/dungeon/event fodder.

[Fwahm]

+97 MACC, +81 Enfeebling Skill, and +228 Magic Accuracy Skill from weapon, I think. I need to get better magic accuracy pants, and I haven't gotten any new delve gear for my red mage yet.

I know that they're fodder, but they're fodder that seem to have similar basic statistics as mobs like VD AAs, based on eyeballing my paralyze proc rates and such. Their defense and evasion are higher than everything but maybe a dozen mobs in the game so far (VD AAs/Kam/Eald, Wopket/Cailimh/Utkax, and maybe evasion for Ircinraq).

[ccl]

SE prolly assume we impact every mob now since most used that to clear delve 1.