Dev Tracker: Discussion

[dasva]

Isn't there the 150 item turn in aspect, too? That strikes me as the more aggravating aspect of it as you can be assured the power gamers will be manipulating that economy and keeping it harder for the more average player to get into the scene.

Yes but they are super cheap. So right now the delve drop or even some of the lower level weapons cost more.

Right now getting one of the new weapons is a little more gil wise than reforging 1 peice of AF/AF2 to 119 which was already said to be easy to get little by little solo

[Anomie]

Let me fix one sentence in this otherwise pretty correct post; well ok two sentences.

and if delve would still be ally content you would still be bitching because it requires too many people, just as it requires for some too many people to 6 man the new delve, which I am not supporting, because there needs to be some party content, but i wouldnt judge the crying of those peoples, because it is understandable, especially since all 6 people need to be on point for delve.
My LS went down from 18+ to ~ 8 peoples last october and is now at 5~6 people (usually less due to RL thing of some members), I am not bitching about the requirements (since I have them cleared), but I can understand people, that it is impossible to gather 6 competent players.

Considering the current population on some servers (and on every server for EUs), its quite hard to get 6 competent players in one group for delve (the key word is competent). So bitching for the requirement is understandable, especially since it cuts out players that play casually.
And the more time passes by the harder it is for people to get a or all 3 wins from teh new delve, because frankly spamming delve 1.0 for plasm is still fucking impossible for most people.

[NynJa]

Let me repost my otherwise already correct reply

You dont need to clear any delve to get these weapons.

I repeat
Delve is not a sole requirement to obtain any of these weapons.

I repeat
You do not need to have a Delve clear to obtain any of these weapons.

In fact, its very possible to get one without ever having doing any Delve.
In fact, you should be able to get one without even having the expansion. (SKC's drop off any lv100+ mob, so they are farmable outside of Adoulin, old BC zones dont require Adoulin, and Oboro is situated in jeuno)

Quit referring to Delve's alliance/party/circlejerk content, because it is NOT a cockblock in this case. I have, as has Dasva, 3boxed certain AA's on Normal, and have cleared SKC20 gigas and yagudo on difficult. There is no reason at all that someone can not join a shout group for either of the two previous events. The skill and gear requirement to beat the aforementioned two events is NOT that high with a group of 6.

Dwindling population is one thing, and it will hurt alliance content, but its a fucking MMO, the second M stands for MULTIPLAYER.

If I can 3box Difficult SKC20 (I've done Gigas and Yagudo, Orcs is a slight problem due to Aerial Wheel's stun being unblockable regardless of Ochain and when I'm supertanking 3-5 orcs, the 5-10 second stun is brutal, havent tried others) and if I can 3box Difficult AA Taru and Gigas (havent done others), the difficulty scale for a party of 6 for the aforementioned events falls under the label of "incompetants can participate"


Get on with your life. If you are having problems finding people for this, may I suggest changing servers and NOT going around going around shouting "youre all shitty fucking terrible players, if I had 18 of me I could beat anything that Matsui throws at me I'm that awesome"

[Martel]

DRG
Fly High Up (+5 attack to all jumps)
Jump Up (+3 attack, includes Spirit Jump)

<rant>Jesus christ, am I tired of seeing jump ATK+. Fucking quit it SE! We have enough jump ATK+, seriously.

Native:
+25% on Spirit jump
+50% on Soul jump. Both assuming wyvern present.

Then
+35% on jump(Ryunohige)

And then nearly every other jump enhancing piece in the game. Cause most of them, just add atk+...

Really not needing anymore jump ATK+ SE... could we get something Useful in exchange for insane amounts of grinding? Like... recast reduction? TP bonus? STP? Mulit-hit? Or maybe some unique and useful effect? Just a little creativity here SE... But practical creativity, mind you.

Oh, and split the damn recasts already. The excuses for that are no longer valid. And letting DRG use their much weaker jumps as well won't break the damn game.

Anyway. /sigh </rant>

[Anomie]

I repeat
Delve is not a sole requirement to obtain any of these weapons.

I repeat
You do not need to have a Delve clear to obtain any of these weapons.

It's got nothing to do with requirements.

Just a simple question, in a decade old game, with a hemorrhaging player base, what is the purpose of making content people continually fail at?

It doesn't keep someone trying, they just say screw it. That's a terrible business model. If it weren't for the log in freeshitgiveaway every month... how many thousands more would unsub?

As far as your other comment, what's true is true. I would argue pretty thoroughly that anyone playing all 6-7 jobs themselves if they were capable would have no issues winning the content. It's always someone else who is the weak link, the gimp, the shitty player, etc. Except in your case, but I digress.

[Priran]

what part of 500k gabbrath horns makes you think spamming delve 1 clears is out of reach for any significant portion of the playerbase

[NynJa]

Youre calling me a weak link, then commenting on how a weak link can ruin an AA normal or SKC20 difficult. Which is it?

[dasva]

what part of 500k gabbrath horns makes you think spamming delve 1 clears is out of reach for any significant portion of the playerbase

Could be that it's mostly done by people not in your time zone or people in semi set groups. That said I think having something require a pt should be fine. Finding 5 okish players is reasonable to clear content 17 impossible for alot lol. Which probably why the amount of horns flooded the market after they changed it

[Revati]

I challenge everyone saying how easy delve should be in shouts to go make one. Rules: no ls members, no friends, no people you've played with before, you can't be the scholar. I've gone with a good ls on their run before and we won with like 15 mins left. I've gone with PUGs where the whm just stands there and lets people die that were low hp for 10+ seconds. Whoever said they could do it easy if they played all 6 characters isn't bragging. The only thing hard in this game is finding competent people to play with. Anyone on Sylph who's been on a Tetsyga run knows what I'm talking about :/.

[Hitou]

what part of 500k gabbrath horns makes you think spamming delve 1 clears is out of reach for any significant portion of the playerbase

Not trying to undermine your argument or anything but that's not really an indicator of anything beyond people don't really need as many horns as there are on your server. They're still over 1 mil on mine which is about as much as they've ever been. There's no short supply but JP spam it all the time.

I've joined and formed my own delve pick up groups and only one group was ever able to get a win. To say it was like night and day isn't strong enough. I've even seen people fail to get Tojil past 50% with 15 min at the time of pulling it. It's just a sad fact that many players are terrible and will never complete delve. 3 bead pld and rng set ups still manage to fail lol.

I'm not asking that delve be nerfed or anything stupid like that. I'm just saying a good portion of players can't win, and they're usually the ones that reply to shouts or make them.

[Darkmagi]

You can't be the scholar? Why not? If you want success, create it for yourself. If you can't win delve, it is your own fault and this is and always will be the case.

[Anomie]

what part of 500k gabbrath horns makes you think spamming delve 1 clears is out of reach for any significant portion of the playerbase

Delve is CLEARLY easily done by groups of core people. Hell even nynja can beat delve 1 bosses I think, with 2 3 boxers.

But someone shouting, with 6-8 independent players, and a shout whm, have zero chance to win.

Why do you think people NEED to BUY the horns? Cause they can't fucking win themselves and use their own plasm to get it, it's pretty simple logic man.

If Tojil was easy enough that a group of casuals could actually win it, I promise you horns would drop to 5k overnight.

[Darkmagi]

zero chance? I see the most terrible players on my server winning tojil. Also I delve far more than most people on 3 characters at that, I still buy materials sometimes.

[arus2001]

Youre calling me a weak link, then commenting on how a weak link can ruin an AA normal or SKC20 difficult. Which is it?

Eh, I wouldn't expect your average player to be multi-boxing, either. Or have an Ochain PLD sitting around. I know this board tends to look at things from the perspective of higher caliber endgame, but that's certainly not the entirety of the game on the progression and dedication end. Overall, the more people feel screwed out of content, the less likely they are to want to play.

[Anomie]

Your worst, are miles better than our typicals.

Our "players" ( I use the term loosely) fail MISERABLY, CONSISTANTLY. I swear to god, people STILL cannot understand the simple mechanics of the turtle mata in morima, they STILL aren't smart enough to run away from Doom auras. They're still dumb enough to stand in range of marine mayhem, I mean it's fucking nauseating.

[Priran]

I challenge everyone saying how easy delve should be in shouts to go make one. Rules: no ls members, no friends, no people you've played with before, you can't be the scholar. I've gone with a good ls on their run before and we won with like 15 mins left. I've gone with PUGs where the whm just stands there and lets people die that were low hp for 10+ seconds. Whoever said they could do it easy if they played all 6 characters isn't bragging. The only thing hard in this game is finding competent people to play with. Anyone on Sylph who's been on a Tetsyga run knows what I'm talking about :/.

shout groups on my server routinely win tojil, and their only requirement is that you have sensible gear for the job you want to go as. people who need a win but have shitty gear should level WHM or COR or something. if they insist on playing a DD, well, SE just added 119 weapons you can buy outright for a few days' dynamis haul. you don't need competent players to kill tojil, you need 1 competent SCH and past that he basically amounts to a gear check.

SE has put in tons of stepping stones to get people to the level where they can win delves. sparks, skirmish, SKCNMs, mission battlefields with difficulty settings. you don't get to put 0 effort into being useful and then piss and moan when you can't clear current endgame content.

[Priran]

Delve is CLEARLY easily done by groups of core people. Hell even nynja can beat delve 1 bosses I think, with 2 3 boxers.

But someone shouting, with 6-8 independent players, and a shout whm, have zero chance to win.

Why do you think people NEED to BUY the horns? Cause they can't fucking win themselves and use their own plasm to get it, it's pretty simple logic man.

If Tojil was easy enough that a group of casuals could actually win it, I promise you horns would drop to 5k overnight.

people buy horns because they have better things to do with 300k plasm

[NynJa]

Eh, I wouldn't expect your average player to be multi-boxing, either. Or have an Ochain PLD sitting around. I know this board tends to look at things from the perspective of higher caliber endgame, but that's certainly not the entirety of the game on the progression and dedication end. Overall, the more people feel screwed out of content, the less likely they are to want to play.

6 monkeys in spark gear should be able to kill a normal tier AA, no need for ochain. Once again, this isnt a matter of "the requirements are too high", this literally is "i want you to hand me shit".

[Anomie]

People who need a win but have shitty gear should level WHM or COR or something. if they insist on playing a DD, well, SE just added 119 weapons you can buy outright for a few days' dynamis haul.

This is the biggest problem right here; How many whms do you see ACTUALLY WANT to be whm. 1 maybe 2? on the entire server? It's legitimately most of the time, the shout whms fault. Granted, some people are just to stupid to use pdt, but a good portion of the time, regardless of pdt, the whm is sitting there dick in hand, half afk cause he/she doesn't want to play fucking whm.

The same is true, even more so for brd, and holy shit don't even start on mnks and rngs.

you don't need competent players to kill tojil, you need 1 competent SCH and past that he basically amounts to a gear check.

All I can say about that is El OH El. So far from the truth, it's comical.

SE has put in tons of stepping stones to get people to the level where they can win delves. sparks, skirmish, SKCNMs, mission battlefields with difficulty settings. you don't get to put 0 effort into being useful and then piss and moan when you can't clear current endgame content.

See everyone defines "useful" as something different, having the best gear and no clue how to play the job, joining every shout is NOT useful. Playing drg cause the shout NEEDED a drg, and you HAPPEN to have it 99, with a ryuno 119 DOES NOT make you useful.

Being that drg, with the intelligence to use meds. Use Ja's. Use food. Use PDT, have actual proper gear, not just agnon hands, makes you USEFUL.

Being a mnk with brotixur does NOT make you useful. Having 99 brd does NOT make you useful.

Understand what I'm saying?

[NynJa]

So youre saying you attract shitty players that you know are shitty and the bitch about how shitty they are.

Like the bard who insisted on giving me marches...on ranger .