Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Priran]

All I can say about that is El OH El. So far from the truth, it's comical.

Ok. I won tojil about a dozen times in the past week (including several in shout groups) and you're on BG bitching about how it's too hard, so you'd clearly know better than I do.

See everyone defines "useful" as something different, having the best gear and no clue how to play the job, joining every shout is NOT useful. Playing drg cause the shout NEEDED a drg, and you HAPPEN to have it 99, with a ryuno 119 DOES NOT make you useful.

Being that drg, with the intelligence to use meds. Use Ja's. Use food. Use PDT, have actual proper gear, not just agnon hands, makes you USEFUL.

Being a mnk with brotixur does NOT make you useful. Having 99 brd does NOT make you useful.

Understand what I'm saying?

Maybe you're having trouble because you think BRDs and well-geared DDs aren't useful.

[Anomie]

The job, totally useful.

The moron playing the job, negates it's usefulness.

Which is why I clearly said: does NOT make you useful.

I wish I had the patience to post the videos of a thousand Tojil fails, I wish I had the hard disk space to save them all.

I've seen tojil's where the stunner was PERFECT. And the "useful" DD's couldn't take it past 95%.

I've seen Dakuwaqa's where the pull get's started with sleepga and then wiped, cause the whms weren't smart enough to be out of range.

I've seen the mata mata fucked up 200 times, no embellishment.

I'm still to this day capable of being awestruck by player stupidity, on a daily basis. If it were possible I'd have a permanent imprint on my face from the amount of facepalms I've done this week alone due to other people's incompetence.

Ok. I won tojil about a dozen times in the past week (including several in shout groups)

Joining a linkshell group with 5/6 shouting for 1 member, is not "a shout group". It's a core group of players who need one spot filled. Completely different. Legitimate "shout whm" is the cause of a massive majority of the so-called "artificial difficulty".

[Priran]

The job, totally useful.

The moron playing the job, negates it's usefulness.

Which is why I clearly said: does NOT make you useful.

I'd totally take a mythic DRG who didn't know how to do anything but engage and WS to Tojil.

Joining a linkshell group with 5/6 shouting for 1 member, is not "a shout group". It's a core group of players who need one spot filled. Completely different. Legitimate "shout whm" is the cause of a massive majority of the so-called "artificial difficulty".

The only "core" you need is a SCH you know to be good. Also, delve is inherently harder the fewer people you bring.

[Damane]

I'd totally take a mythic DRG who didn't know how to do anything but engage and WS to Tojil.


The only "core" you need is a SCH you know to be good. Also, delve is inherently harder the fewer people you bring.

i usually play sch in delve. while i agree that a good sch can carry a shitty group very far, there is limits to that too, especially in foret. I have had a run where i basicly started to get stun resists on tojil (mind you last time i saw this was pre skill+ upgrade on weapons) because 2/3 of DPS really sucked balls, wiped on runs where i didnt get marches and hastes and tabula was used up for stratagem and wore off.
not saying i dont mistakes either (mostly due to gearswapping errors casting stun in wrong gear because doing multiple things at a time). I can compensate for 2 shitty players mostly in morimar but if its more even a good sch cant do much, so i understand his point eith pugs.

however on delve 2 noone can carry you, if even 1 player is shitty the whole run will autofail, no matter which job (ecxept if you bead 3 NMs even then it can be delicate)

[CoreyX]

A good SCH is definitely not a guaranteed auto-win, you have no idea how many times I've run into the resist wall because it's dying at a snail's pace and/or the DD are dying left and right even while everything is being stunned because the healers are AFK or something and the melee are probably fulltiming level 99 gear

[Sechs]

A good SCH may not be not a guaranteeed auto-win but I'd rather call it a "conditio sine qua non"

[Damane]

A good SCH may not be not a guaranteeed auto-win but I'd rather call it a "conditio sine qua non"

now in english please ._.

[Prothescar]

An indispensable (or necessary) condition (part)

[Sechs]

Literally it means: "an indispensable and essential action, condition, or ingredient"
But tipically (at least in my own language, I assume elsewhere as well) it's used with the meaning of "necessary but not sufficient condition"

Paraphrasing my previous sentence, I was trying to say that having a reliable SCH is almost a necessary pre-requisite for a successful Tojil run but, alone, it's not enough. (in contrast to who was claiming that having a good SCH = guaranteed win)



Edit:
Btw I wasn't trying to sound smart and allmighty using a latin sentence. It's widely common overhere and appearently I wrongly assumed it was the same everywhere else as well.

[NynJa]

Mandating a good SCH is akin to mandating a MNK whos head isnt up their ass. Just because someone has Oats, they think they're set, and completely ignore DT sets, WS gearswaps, having good gear, etc.

[Bukadan]

thats why i leveled sch on my mule, so i can do the carrier DPS and the stunning at the same time. i will say though, that gear at this point(given same ilevels for characters, or just all 119 for comparison sake) means FAR LESS than skill. the gap between dps of new 119ilevel gears is so small, that it comes to player skill to dps rather than anything else. the same is true for sch. a sch who heals when stunning isnt a req, as well as nukes when its viable, is truly worthwhile. ive always said, beyond skill and gear, that good food (pescatora, tacos, mushroom stew, ect) and a medicine list (hi-lixerx2, vile, vile+1, remedyx12, panaceax12) are all something that really do make a difference.

[CoreyX]

I don't think healing or nuking while solo stunning is really a good idea, the 3 second delay between spells means you can easily miss a stun if you're unlucky. Could you squeeze a heal or nuke directly after stunning? Sure if you're quick enough but it might also do a Lahar right when you finish casting your spell and you'll be unable to stun due to the stupid delay. Sometimes it's best to just focus on stun and not try to be an overachieving SCH, if the group can't manage without you then that's really their fault and part of the SCH = not guaranteed win part

[Priran]

Paraphrasing my previous sentence, I was trying to say that having a reliable SCH is almost a necessary pre-requisite for a successful Tojil run but, alone, it's not enough. (in contrast to who was claiming that having a good SCH = guaranteed win)

If you're done derailing the thread so we can all understand just how clever you are, I actually didn't say that. I said if you have a good SCH, Tojil is a gear check. That is to say, having DDs geared well enough that you don't

run into the resist wall because it's dying at a snail's pace

[PSOfanatic]

I will agree with the arguments that the way delve is currently setup is dumb. I do like SE is adding alternatives however some of the gear from delve is irreplaceable.

I would like to see an VE/E/N/D/VD setup for delve much like you see with high tier battlefields. They could lower drop rates and plasm return from monsters/NM. At least this way people could get SOME form of progress...whether it be low low low man or a party of 6.

This is the type of progression SE has been trying to implement but they never put it into delve. The hardcore circlejerk party setups would still be on the top of the server...and the casuals can casually farm plasm up to buy their shit. Everyone wins.

[Mefuki]

^Sounds good to me, PSO.

[Draylo]

Or just get better and stop losing, it takes 6 people.

[dasva]

Oh look raising caps on merit points and a double CP campaign... now you can grind to infinity twice as fast!

[Fwahm]

Maybe if it was a x10 capacity point campaign, it'd make grinding for job points look a bit doable. But x2? That's still ridiculous.

[Damane]

I will agree with the arguments that the way delve is currently setup is dumb. I do like SE is adding alternatives however some of the gear from delve is irreplaceable.

I would like to see an VE/E/N/D/VD setup for delve much like you see with high tier battlefields. They could lower drop rates and plasm return from monsters/NM. At least this way people could get SOME form of progress...whether it be low low low man or a party of 6.

This is the type of progression SE has been trying to implement but they never put it into delve. The hardcore circlejerk party setups would still be on the top of the server...and the casuals can casually farm plasm up to buy their shit. Everyone wins.

I think what SE/Devs fail to do is add a bonus for party play. Theres many instances where going lowman is more beneficial, or where going with a single party is more beneficial then with a full ally.
What they need to do is add incentiv as in bonus for teaming up with people:
examples:
- Party play outside of abyssea, there is no incentiv to do that, you hurt your exp and you have trusts. add a multipler of 20% for each party member up to 100% for a 6 man pt for CP and EXP/limit points. Instead you get an exp penalty and CP penalty (wtf!) as it stands now.
- Alliance play in delve, add a plasm and drops multipler for more members: 6 members PT, normal like it is now, 12 PT members double the amount of plasm and drops, 18 PT members 1.5 the amount of plasm and drops
- list goes on
yes I am aware people could use mules to skew that in theri favour, but honestly who the fuck cares...

[dasva]

Maybe if it was a x10 capacity point campaign, it'd make grinding for job points look a bit doable. But x2? That's still ridiculous.

Should really just make it a double xp campaign... while at the same time making all xp modifiers also apply to capacity points.