Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Damane]

Job-Punkte
Um den Erhalt der Punkte zu vereinfachen, haben wir einen Kettenbonus hinzugefügt.

Durch das Ausrüstungslevel-System werden die Spezifikationen etwas geändert. Indem man mehr und mehr Monster besiegt, wird die Obergrenze des Bonus hochgesetzt und der Sieg über besonders starke Monster bringt einen höheren Bonus.

This is from the German Forums about Capacity Points chaining:

"To make the aquisition of CPs easier a chain bonus will be introduced.

Through the Ilvl System the specifics will be a bit change. If you kill more and more Monster, the chain bonus goes more up and if you defeat a very stron monster it will give you a much bigger bonus."

There is no word about the upper limit of the bonus, but I assume it will work the same as exp bonus.

[Anomie]

Outside of Tojil and Shark, what do you still do that need stun at all? Also short of Yorcia Delve/VD dm, I've won everything with pug; I have wiped to easy stuff too but if you make your own shout; sooner or later you'll find good people.

You don't need an LS to clear current content, specially with how low populater the server are now, everyone know everyone, so if your shout group are good, they'll join you.

What hidden secret are you talking about ? If you mean stuff like how to stop yorcia delve morta charm, I def prefer having to figure it out than making it even more easier than it is now w/o any testing.

You're the 1st person I see complaining about HP fix lol

This same argument goes on and on and on apparently every other servers pick up parties are just fine, even the worst possible players win all the content, gg to you guys. It must be nice to choose 5 people completely at random, with no regard for skill or gear or even job, and just walk through it blind folded. Amazing.

I guess our server is just the worst of the worst. Should just delete it from the mainframe. We're the only server that can and has failed consistently at even the easiest content with pick-ups.

All I said in regards to the hp change, is; "it wasn't enough" I think that's been said by more than myself. It doesn't change anything. You still get one-shotted after a missed lahar, so what was the point.

Hp as a whole should've went up as well as the adjustment to make them closer, no one can disagree with that.

The power creep in this game has spiraled well beyond all reasonable control at this point. It was posted before but here is what power creep is for those who don't have a clue;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw

[Malithar]

The power creep in this game has spiraled well beyond all reasonable control at this point.

Hp as a whole should've went up as well as the adjustment to make them closer, no one can disagree with that.

Funny.

It doesn't change anything. You still get one-shotted after a missed lahar, so what was the point.

Funnier.

Maybe you'd be interested in a little known secret that was discovered within the first day of Tojil progression; -DT and +HP gear saves lives. Crazy concept. Then again, anyone who "needs" to be prepared for such an occurrence obviously isn't good enough to be running this content. Should just whine for it all to get nerfed or base HP buffed so we can just auto attack to victory. No wonder you think that everything they've done for the game is in the wrong direction.

Bout the only thing that I could get on board for being out of control to a power creeping degree is VD AAs and the like AoE damage. Requiring full time -DT and/or EA/Scherzo is a bit extreme just to survive, or game it all with /Nin and hope none of the DDs are all stars holding hate full time.

No one ever comes around spouting that pickup parties are all roses and chocolates though. But it's not impossible, by a long shot. Maybe if you weren't being such a puss about "but we can't lose!" you'd grow out of this stage, and realize most people's goal isn't to lose. Sure, some/most might suck, but there's plenty that are willing to listen/learn and work towards completing fights. Enjoy finding that out someday with the stragglers that held a similar "I have no LS and the entire server is balls" outlook.

[Indalecia]

To be fair...the only common variable I'm seeing is you.

[Priran]

hmmmmmm, i has a concern.... i am making my ochain, im half way through colorless souls, i have 20 horns, 1500hmps, and 60 riftdross....is my priwen gonna negate ochain lmao...?

I think Ochain will still be better for supertanking large groups of mobs

[Fwahm]

Going by Martel's numbers, Priwen should match Ochain at around the haste/fast cast amount that lets the PLD keep Reprisal up half the time (33% total reduction). More than that, and Priwen pulls ahead, and less than that, Ochain pulls ahead.

This is assuming that Reprisal isn't wearing early due to reflected damage, which I assume won't be too much of a problem after the update that quadruples the HP limit, but might still be relevant when tanking groups of mobs, like Priran said.

[arus2001]

They're basically recreating pre-nerf CoP with their design choices. Most never bothered to help/backtrack for others because there was little in it for them other than potential gil, EXP, and time loss. As is a problem with any kind of tiering system (ilvls in this case), the more you miss the initial content rush, the more you're fucked later on. And while they've hinted at possibly letting people solo i119 gear slowly sometime in the future, you certainly can't plop catch-up mechanisms a year or so after the fact. Shit either needs to be launched simultaneously with new content, or at worst, 3 months later.

So, while I won't say XI is dieing or that subs are bleeding away faster than Gulk faps to mithra pr0n, this isn't a market one can afford to be sluggish in or even lacking features that are becoming more the MMO norm, especially as a P2P game. When people leave to find games more to their taste, that just thins the party pool. And if you can't get a party and can't solo progress at a reasonable pace, I don't see much reason for anyone to stick around under those conditions.

[NynJa]

They're basically recreating pre-nerf CoP with their design choices. Most never bothered to help/backtrack for others because there was little in it for them other than potential gil, EXP, and time loss.

This isnt a fair analogy, because CoP required carrying a set of lv30/40/50/60 gear as well, since lvl sync did not exist at that time. So it wasnt just "hay halp meh", it was "hay, buy some old gear and halp meh"

[arus2001]

Dunno, gil and time loss seems to cover that from my perspective. Still doesn't change the fact PUGing back then was a matter of being on at the right place at the right time with the right job.

[NynJa]

Dunno, gil and time loss seems to cover that from my perspective. Still doesn't change the fact PUGing back then was a matter of being on at the right place at the right time with the right job.

So you're saying that PuG's will use the group that is most likely to grant them the best success instead of ragtagging it with people who insist on playing X job?

[arus2001]

You've never experienced the phenomenon where once a strategy is in a wiki/guide, people dare not deviate? Because that's what PUGs tend to cling to. Sure, nobody wants to go in with the intent to lose, but when that shouting alliance wants a 3 song BRD and you're not a 3 song BRD, good luck getting in. And the whole "level/gear a job you don't like just so you can gear the one you do" logic as a potential Plan B isn't something you can readily apply to more casual players.

[Trigun]

As far as games go, nobody wants to suffer. The devs are willing to make things easier faster now.
(one example I can think of recently was when they lowered the amount of merits needed for AA ki's)
There are high plasma prices for new delve items but the new bosses are fought in the same zone.
Trusts outnumber Summons in less than a year and they are more useful solo, but Cait Sith took up until a March of this year.
XI players have become wise to these faux challenge timesinks.
You are either brazen enough to conquer new content or patient enough to wait until it's easier.
The only thing that made a level playing field was the VW proc'ing system and it has come to Adoulin.

[Alistrianna]

Voidwatch was far from a level playing field. If anything, it's proc system enforced efficiency more than any other system since you still had to be able to win at the same time.


EDIT: The only reason Voidwatch even got any easier for some folks was that it was introduced at 90 cap and 2 limit breaks had occured since then.

[ccl]

This same argument goes on and on and on apparently every other servers pick up parties are just fine, even the worst possible players win all the content, gg to you guys. It must be nice to choose 5 people completely at random, with no regard for skill or gear or even job, and just walk through it blind folded. Amazing.


All I said in regards to the hp change, is; "it wasn't enough" I think that's been said by more than myself. It doesn't change anything. You still get one-shottedafter a missed lahar, so what was the point.

You know you can check people gear before entering stuff like you know anything ? I had a noble tunic whm a few days ago, I nicely told him he shouldn't be doing delve in noble tunic and replaced him

If you get one shot after Lahar; you're the problem, and if you go on a dd that can stun(I go sam); I blade bash/hobaku every tp move I can while weakened if a lahar land, it's not very hard

[pancakesandsex]

As far as games go, nobody wants to suffer. The devs are willing to make things easier faster now.
(one example I can think of recently was when they lowered the amount of merits needed for AA ki's)
There are high plasma prices for new delve items but the new bosses are fought in the same zone.
Trusts outnumber Summons in less than a year and they are more useful solo, but Cait Sith took up until a March of this year.
XI players have become wise to these faux challenge timesinks.
You are either brazen enough to conquer new content or patient enough to wait until it's easier.
The only thing that made a level playing field was the VW proc'ing system and it has come to Adoulin.

The vw proc system has not come to adoulin. The !! markers are simply there as an indicator that something changed, it's not a variable thing caused by a trigger from a pool of possible triggers, they are all very specific, and repeatable, and don't have any effect other than to serve as an indicator that you did something that will alter the monster behavior. Delve 1 had the same type of behavior changes without the indicator.

[Anomie]

You know you can check people gear before entering stuff like you know anything ? I had a noble tunic whm a few days ago, I nicely told him he shouldn't be doing delve in noble tunic and replaced him

If you get one shot after Lahar; you're the problem, and if you go on a dd that can stun(I go sam); I blade bash/hobaku every tp move I can while weakened if a lahar land, it's not very hard

The gear doesn't mean the player is good or bad. Common misconception since gaming existed. We all know this.

No amount of DT or HP+ is going to save you from a 3k Meteor from someone who failed to stun lahar, then that meteor. (except aegis, and/or a smart whm who sacro's, (yeah right)).

All you can do is stand there with your dick in your hand, in your dt set, and wait to die. While the whm has his dick in his hand.

Can't build tp while weakened if the spikes are up either, so no shoulder tackling. Pick up whms aren't good enough to cover your ass while you beat yourself to death on flame spikes, and the same guy would couldn't stun it sure as hell isn't going to dispel the spikes.

It's obviously a completely different game we all play here, you guys all have the best pick-up parties in the universe, with legit players and epic timing, no scrubs etc.

It doesn't matter how good you (I am) are, all it takes is one guy to fuck it up. So you replace him? With another fuck up, good job! replace him, joy another fuck up, ad-infinitium.

[ccl]

The gear doesn't mean the player is good or bad. Common misconception since gaming existed. We all know this.

No amount of DT or HP+ is going to save you from a 3k Meteor from someone who failed to stun lahar, then that meteor. (except aegis, and/or a smart whm who sacro's, (yeah right)).

All you can do is stand there with your dick in your hand, in your dt set, and wait to die. While the whm has his dick in his hand.

Can't build tp while weakened if the spikes are up either, so no shoulder tackling. Pick up whms aren't good enough to cover your ass while you beat yourself to death on flame spikes, and the same guy would couldn't stun it sure as hell isn't going to dispel the spikes.

It's obviously a completely different game we all play here, you guys all have the best pick-up parties in the universe, with legit players and epic timing, no scrubs etc.

It doesn't matter how good you (I am) are, all it takes is one guy to fuck it up. So you replace him? With another fuck up, good job! replace him, joy another fuck up, ad-infinitium.

Ok you can't do stuff cause everyone suck and the game is horrible, there are ONLY bad pug on your server and never a good one. Sorry I wasted your time, Nynja was right.

[Seha]

Quite the ego trip.

Small penis? Or just douche for no particular reason?

Either way I agree with people saying nobody would even want to team up with you given how you talk. Good or bad players alike.

[Martel]

Reprisal and Priwen (4/16/2014)
The situation is as you describe. Thus, we will be changing Reprisal in the May update. Instead of the current setting of HP/2 maximum reflected damage, it will be changed to HPx2.

Wow.... Well. This changes things.

Going by Martel's numbers, Priwen should match Ochain at around the haste/fast cast amount that lets the PLD keep Reprisal up half the time (33% total reduction). More than that, and Priwen pulls ahead, and less than that, Ochain pulls ahead.

This is assuming that Reprisal isn't wearing early due to reflected damage, which I assume won't be too much of a problem after the update that quadruples the HP limit, but might still be relevant when tanking groups of mobs, like Priran said.

I haven't run that particular comparison myself yet, but that sounds about right.

Is this what you call closing the gap SE? Cause it looks like they closed the gap and then blew right past it. lol

I did a Priwen + Reprisal test on lvl 126 mobs the other day.

Base block rate is assumed to be 30.21% based on killedar block rate and the added shield skill.

Reprisal Block rate: 85.25%

I'm still not quite seeing the x3 SE was talking about, but it's closer here than on the 109 sample. Which is really odd...

But anyway. With 85.25% block rate, and -88 dmg reduction on block, reprisal up Priwen would equate to -75% dmg. Ochain with 100% block rate is -66%, btw.

Now, Ochain still holds some advantages. Capped block rate means an extremely stable level of DMG reduction. It prevents really big DMG spikes from un-blocked attacks that could be potential one-shotters. This also mean reliable status prevention from physical ws add effects.

Priwen has to maintain Reprisal to stay ahead, which means you need buffs. Dispel is potentially an issue(think AA EV.) And spell interruption can be a concern before getting reprisal back up(30% block rate sucks to cast with.)

One of the largest issues, the reprisal damage cap, has largely been mitigated. Even with enhanced spikes dmg, it should take a good number of mobs to deal 4.4k spikes damage(basing this on my PLD's HP) in 1 minute. And in the case that you need to super tank mass mobs... Take off your Ilvl weapon. You drop ~215 M.ACC skill and your reprisal spikes start getting resisted to hell on high level mobs. Crap spikes dmg = full duration reprisal.

The last thing to consider is that that 85% block rate can still be increased via shield skill. And if the effects of skill are tripled under reprisal, even some of the lower skill piece begin to look good.

let's say we add Reverence feet+1. +17 skill. This should net us 3.655% block rate, before reprisal. With reprisal, 10.965%. So we've gone from 85% block rate to 96% in one piece of gear. At this point, the last 4% could be gained from one more piece of gear with 7+ skill. Anyone still have their shield torques?

However, this is assuming reprisal actually works just like SE is saying. There have been some oddities in my testing so far.

The 126 test didn't quite reach block rate x3. And the 109 test on had 98.44% block rate, despite the non-reprisal rate being 64%. Even x2 block rate should have over capped that. It almost seems like a cap of some kind is being hit...

Anyway, I need to do a few skill+ tests for Priwen+reprisal on 126 mob.

[Prothescar]

Holy shit that reprisal change lol.