Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Sechs]

Level up each ergon loci to max rank, obtain tincture from it and use said tincture while loci is at max rank. Then examine each loci once for each tincture while it's buff is up....

I was kidding of course, but given how annoying it is to do stuff related to Ergon Loci... it would be very retarded if they really went that way lol
Altough we cannot exclude something related to Ergon Loci, something simple like examining/activating them all?

I still wouldn't be so quick to assume that these will literally be mythic weapons. My money's on the "mythic" moniker just being a fancy way of saying "job specific"

Yeah, ^ this so much.
I also don't see other ergon weapons coming for other jobs, but time will tell.

I'm more curious about the RUN job specific WS and how will they make it unlockable for other jobs.

[Damane]

I dont expect run and geo mythics to be as hard to obtain as mythics are, but they wont be totally free. If you start from scratch, getting to max rank alone in all coalitions will take alot of time you need 175 tags to rank from 0 to legend rank in 1 coal, that means
1050 tags in total. 6 hours per tag = 6300 hours. so 262.5 days to rank all 6 of them to legend. this is just for starting the quest!

as oposed the assaults can be done in 50 days for captain rank and nyzul points can be done depending your score point 20 runs (even less), add another 50 days to do all assaults again and add 60 days for einherjar this means 180 days, still way shorter then getting to max rank just to start the quest, especiall if you consider you can combine stuff and integrate the einherjar run inbetween your assault runs and nyzul isle runs..

[Ophannus]

Idk about the bayld thing. They haven't added any items that cost over like 50k bayld I believe yet most people have a few mil laying around. Wish they had added some more things that could be purchased with bayld like delve beads, synth mats, rem tales. Outside of the various outdated equipment and shit there's nothing to use bayld on, nobody buys prism powders for 6k bayld or their 40k one-time use tinctures. Bayld is like cruor except there's no big money items like brews. Conceivably if they adds beads for all zones for bayld say 75k for 1-3, 100k for 4,5 for delve 1.0 and 150-200k for 1-3,4-5 respectively for delve 2.0, there'd be a reason to do more bayld related activities. An active reason to spend bayld would have far reaching benefits. There would be more people doing reives which means other people can get capes and more simulcra and colonization rate etc. having no outlet for all the bayld we collected means events where players have gear already will stagnate.

I foresee them adding a legion/limbus/einherjar type event with a 100k bayld entrance fee for the leader of the alliance, this will force more players to do coalition/rieves/WKR which will benefit newer or casual players as well.

Also isn't soloing nyzul kinda risky since you might get to like floor 98 and then get a same time lamp with 5 lamps and you basically lose because you cant exit and get no tokens right?

[Priran]

Idk about the bayld thing. They haven't added any items that cost over like 50k bayld I believe yet most people have a few mil laying around. Wish they had added some more things that could be purchased with bayld like delve beads, synth mats, rem tales. Outside of the various outdated equipment and shit there's nothing to use bayld on, nobody buys prism powders for 6k bayld or their 40k one-time use tinctures. Bayld is like cruor except there's no big money items like brews. Conceivably if they adds beads for all zones for bayld say 75k for 1-3, 100k for 4,5 for delve 1.0 and 150-200k for 1-3,4-5 respectively for delve 2.0, there'd be a reason to do more bayld related activities. An active reason to spend bayld would have far reaching benefits. There would be more people doing reives which means other people can get capes and more simulcra and colonization rate etc. having no outlet for all the bayld we collected means events where players have gear already will stagnate.

I foresee them adding a legion/limbus/einherjar type event with a 100k bayld entrance fee for the leader of the alliance, this will force more players to do coalition/rieves/WKR which will benefit newer or casual players as well.

Also isn't soloing nyzul kinda risky since you might get to like floor 98 and then get a same time lamp with 5 lamps and you basically lose because you cant exit and get no tokens right?

The get-your-relic-free card for RUN and GEO was 100k per piece, I think.

I think getting people to do colo reives might be what they're trying to do. Minor issue with that, it's really shitty bayld. Nothing trumps courier co and noetic ascension spam.

[JSHidaka]

If those 2 new "mythic" have the same aftermath as old mythics,.. And are "easier" SE will be forced to "nerf" old mythics...

Dnc and sch aren't form TOA expansion and had to do that quest... No reason to not do the same for geo and run...

Getting max rank might take a yr but you can do it solo 100%
Thing you can't with Nyzul, some assaults, einherjar...

Other thing is those weapon will be ilvl119 directly...

[Priran]

If those 2 new "mythic" have the same aftermath as old mythics,.. And are "easier" SE will be forced to "nerf" old mythics...

Dnc and sch aren't form TOA expansion and had to do that quest... No reason to not do the same for geo and run...

Getting max rank might take a yr but you can do it solo 100%
Thing you can't with Nyzul, some assaults, einherjar...

Other thing is those weapon will be ilvl119 directly...

DNC and SCH still came out before mythics did, though.

[Byrthnoth]

Also, SE isn't forced to do anything. If GEO and RUN's "mythic-equivalents" are easier to get than other jobs'... well, so what? For some jobs, Relics are the best weapons. Relics are easy as hell to get.

[Prothescar]

you can solo einherjar


besides that, stop whining. we don't even know what the quest asks us to do yet, we only know the pre req which by itself is a daunting task, especially if you haven't bothered capping those things yet since it was pointless to do so before.


Let's compare Coalition capping to getting Captain for shits and giggles.


175 Imprimaturs per coalition for cap
110 Imprimaturs per coalition for Advisor
360 minutes per imprimatur (330 with bronze shovel after finishing all assignments from Petitioner to Advisor)

175 * 6 = 1050 Imprimaturs for Legend in all Coalitions

110 * 6 = 660 Imprimaturs for Advisor in all Coalitions

660 * 360 = 237,600 minutes; 3,960 hours; 165 days; 5.5 months to Advisor in all Coalitions

1050 - 660 = 390 Imprimaturs required for Advisor to Legend in every Coalition

390 * 330 = 128,700 minutes; 2,145 hours; 90 days; 3 months to Legend from Advisor in all Coalitions

237,600 + 128,700 = 366,300 minutes; 6,105 hours; 255 days; 8.5 months to Legend in all Coalitions

1050 * 360 = 378,000 minutes; 6,300 hours; 263 days; 8.8 months to Legend in all Coalitions without Bronze Shovel



For captain, it takes 50~60 days, 60 only being if you fail some assaults and need more tags. Even when you consider doing Captain twice for the books, it takes significantly longer, over twice as long, to get all coalitions up to Legend. This is also assuming you religiously use your Imprimaturs, wasting none. It takes 3~4 months to build a Mythic if you put in enough effort; the pre req to flag the Ergon weapon quest is already double that. I'd say that if anything these will be pound for pound harder to get than Mythics rather than easier. We won't know until the quests become available.

[dasva]

Thing you can't with Nyzul, some assaults, einherjar...

I've actually recently assaults and only a couple took more than 1 try and only the mining one gave me enough trouble to call another person to help. And that's basically just because you have to roll rng as much as you can to hope of getting it. Nyzul the only problem is if you get several same time lamps. Sure you probably wont be getting the 10 levels you can do triboxing but still can get 5 easy. einherjar again easily soloable by lots of jobs.

These events used to be hardish and unsolable but those days are long gone.

[Foldypaws]

Hmm. You need "8.8 months" to get legend from scratch, but only a small fraction of that is going to be playtime.
Assuming you're not cheating your way through the assaults, doing 120 assaults is probably going to take at least 1200 minutes. (There are plenty where you're waiting on NPCs or whatever where being 119 for 75 content won't help you a bit)

To spend 1050 imprits... hard to say. For some of the coalitions you can do like, 3/30 seconds (Inventors, Couriers, mummers?) I'm actually not sure what the most efficient peacekeeper/pioneers/scouts, but I'd be surprised if it was much slower than say, 3/5 minutes. Which puts them roughly around the same amount of playtime to do both, by my made up back of the envelope calculations.

[Damane]

If those 2 new "mythic" have the same aftermath as old mythics,.. And are "easier" SE will be forced to "nerf" old mythics...

Dnc and sch aren't form TOA expansion and had to do that quest... No reason to not do the same for geo and run...

Getting max rank might take a yr but you can do it solo 100%
Thing you can't with Nyzul, some assaults, einherjar...

Other thing is those weapon will be ilvl119 directly...

your comparison is totally flawed:
1. DNC and SCH were allready introduced before mythics became available
2. you can solo a mythic too
3. the PREREQUISIT to flag the mythic quest for RUN and GEO allready takes twice as long as completing a full mythic, which makes it allready "harder"
4. we dont know yet what the quest involves, but I sure as hell hope its not harder or more stuff then a mythic requires, I am inclined to believe it will be a tad easier.
5. those jobs have no alternativ access to any REM weapons, so makeing the quest easier would at least bring them on the same level as the other jobs.
6. we dont know how usefull the mythics will be, even if they get the same aftermath, it will hardly make them OP over other jobs, it depends what the weapons offer in special.

[Prothescar]

Hmm. You need "8.8 months" to get legend from scratch, but only a small fraction of that is going to be playtime.
Assuming you're not cheating your way through the assaults, doing 120 assaults is probably going to take at least 1200 minutes. (There are plenty where you're waiting on NPCs or whatever where being 119 for 75 content won't help you a bit)

To spend 1050 imprits... hard to say. For some of the coalitions you can do like, 3/30 seconds (Inventors, Couriers, mummers?) I'm actually not sure what the most efficient peacekeeper/pioneers/scouts, but I'd be surprised if it was much slower than say, 3/5 minutes. Which puts them roughly around the same amount of playtime to do both, by my made up back of the envelope calculations.

not particularly relevant, the important part is how long it actually takes to obtain the weapon. effort exerted for either weapon is relatively miniscule, but the time it takes to actually get the quest and obtain an ergon weapon is twice that of a mythic even before considering the actual ergon weapon quest.

[Damane]

Hmm. You need "8.8 months" to get legend from scratch, but only a small fraction of that is going to be playtime.
Assuming you're not cheating your way through the assaults, doing 120 assaults is probably going to take at least 1200 minutes. (There are plenty where you're waiting on NPCs or whatever where being 119 for 75 content won't help you a bit)

To spend 1050 imprits... hard to say. For some of the coalitions you can do like, 3/30 seconds (Inventors, Couriers, mummers?) I'm actually not sure what the most efficient peacekeeper/pioneers/scouts, but I'd be surprised if it was much slower than say, 3/5 minutes. Which puts them roughly around the same amount of playtime to do both, by my made up back of the envelope calculations.

pioneers mummers and peacekeepers will take the most time. however pre supply coal nerfs, i would have said couriers (i did that shit pre nerf -_-), unless you used the warp trick, which you cant do on all ranks. Remember you allways need to do the highest rank assignments to rank up in 25 imp uses, otherwise it will take EVEN LONGER to cap them. the easiest will be couriers ----> inventors (just AH the shit) ----> scouts (a bit of walking).

[Byrthnoth]

I don't get it. I've been top rank in all Coalitions essentially since the last rank was released and never did the infinite imp trick. Better yet, that's not an accomplishment that's going to go away and takes zero initial time. The real question is which currency they are going to make into the sticking point, because I assure you that Coalition rank will not be it. Options are:
* Fragments - Can buy them indirectly through stones, which would encourage Skirmish. This is maybe the most attractive option because it encourages content that hasn't been completely embraced.
* Beitetsu/Plutons/Boulders - Could give another way to get rid of these items, encourages current content, but it's content that people are already doing willingly and would conflict with their JSE weapons.
* Bayld - Isn't going to happen. I have over 5 million Bayld without farming it. This wouldn't even slow people down unless the amount required was astronomical.
* Plasm or Airlixirs - Could happen, and especially Airlixirs.
* New currency - When they released mythics, they also released Alexandrite. They could do the same thing again.

[Prothescar]

Just because you happen to have all coalitions capped doesn't invalidate the fact that the requirement exists, and when creating the quest they need to take into account that it's a minimum 8.5 months worth of tag cooldowns in order to achieve. For someone starting from scratch, it will be 8.5 months minimum before they hold the weapon in their hands, and that's assuming all of the other requirements of the quest can be done without having it flagged.

[Foldypaws]

pioneers mummers and peacekeepers will take the most time. however pre supply coal nerfs, i would have said couriers (i did that shit pre nerf -_-), unless you used the warp trick, which you cant do on all ranks. Remember you allways need to do the highest rank assignments to rank up in 25 imp uses, otherwise it will take EVEN LONGER to cap them. the easiest will be couriers ----> inventors (just AH the shit) ----> scouts (a bit of walking).

Uh, citation needed? Because I've never heard anything of the sort.

[Foldypaws]

not particularly relevant, the important part is how long it actually takes to obtain the weapon. effort exerted for either weapon is relatively miniscule, but the time it takes to actually get the quest and obtain an ergon weapon is twice that of a mythic even before considering the actual ergon weapon quest.

Eh, depends. For me, I'd rather have less effort and more time waiting. (Like, if you gave me the choice of two ways to get things, one of which took, idk, 10 hours of grind but I got it the second it was done, and the other where I spent 15 minutes but I got it after waiting for 30 days, I'd take the latter pretty much every time.)

[Darkmagi]

Yeah, I know many people including myself who have barely touched coalitions. It's a huge cockblock for most people.

[Damane]

I don't get it. I've been top rank in all Coalitions essentially since the last rank was released and never did the infinite imp trick. Better yet, that's not an accomplishment that's going to go away and takes zero initial time. The real question is which currency they are going to make into the sticking point, because I assure you that Coalition rank will not be it. Options are:
* Fragments - Can buy them indirectly through stones, which would encourage Skirmish. This is maybe the most attractive option because it encourages content that hasn't been completely embraced.
* Beitetsu/Plutons/Boulders - Could give another way to get rid of these items, encourages current content, but it's content that people are already doing willingly and would conflict with their JSE weapons.
* Bayld - Isn't going to happen. I have over 5 million Bayld without farming it. This wouldn't even slow people down unless the amount required was astronomical.
* Plasm or Airlixirs - Could happen, and especially Airlixirs.
* New currency - When they released mythics, they also released Alexandrite. They could do the same thing again.

frankly i am hopeing none of the currency needed needs a very excessiv amount ._., atm I am glad I kept my coalitions capped everytime

[Prothescar]

Eh, depends. For me, I'd rather have less effort and more time waiting. (Like, if you gave me the choice of two ways to get things, one of which took, idk, 10 hours of grind but I got it the second it was done, and the other where I spent 15 minutes but I got it after waiting for 30 days, I'd take the latter pretty much every time.)

yeah of course, less time playing would be better (though, the time spent making money for the inevitable cash cow of these things may deter whatever advantage coal assignments have over assaults). I'm only comparing the raw time it takes to get from the start to the end and actually have the weapon, which is the most important part for a lot (I'd even say most) people. at the end of the day, an optimally built mythic still takes half as long from start to finish as it takes to even unlock the ergon weapon quest; if you're slow, you can finish the mythic by the time it takes you to unlock the ergon quest. if you're really slow, well I don't know man this discussion really doesn't include that demographic. i just find it to be ridiculous that this is even a thing.