Dev Tracker: Discussion

[dasva]

we dont know yet how much accuracy the food gives to the master, I assume sushi like accuracy at least and antother version with red curry like attack, otherwise they might better not have been bothering with pet food... Imho the best solution would still be to let songs/rolls/geo-fart-bubble/sambas/magic effect pets.

Well I look at it as you will naturally have more acc than your pet even without acc gear or buffs so anything your pet can get good acc with the food on you might want att food for

[Prothescar]

Incorrect, especially for SMN. Our avatars have such little HP that they die to a lot of things a normal DD would laugh at.

EDIT: Hell, one of the things in the SMN toolbox requires avatars to not die and not do anything. Avatar's Favor. I bet it would see a lot more use if they didn't die so damn easily.

was speaking entirely from the perspective of BST, mostly because I forgot SMN even exists

[Tarage]

was speaking entirely from the perspective of BST, mostly because I forgot SMN even exists

I love you too.

[dasva]

Jugs are still fairly squishy too. Sure they got twice the hp but don't have the built in 50% pdt... but since jugs can't do any real dmg especially spike dmg they also never get the attention of the mob so only get hit by aoes

[Prothescar]

They don't get the mob's attention if you're doing it wrong, I guess. aside from that there's very few monsters where you don't have a jug that does, indeed, have -50% damage built in. A majority of the physical attacks in this game are slashing; even something you'd think is obviously something else, like beastmen's ranged attacks, are slashing damage. there's not much where BST is applicable where the pet can't survive the entire time or with just a single swap with proper preparation. (this includes Normal~VD AAs, which are completely doable using your pets as tanks.)

[Sechs]

Automatons have "normal" HP but they can be "equipped" to reduce damage, but that requires a lot of sacrifice on the damage side (with maneuvers etc).
Pet is disposable thanks to DEA, but kinda need Repair to be up if you don't want it oneshot again.

Also, you're kinda bound to use Sharpshoot if you wanna do damage, and even with Divinator and protection attachments, that's still squishy compared to Valoredge (which can build nice defense but does shit damage).
I don't know. Better defense stats maybe, but less HP, doesn't the situation kinda evens out with BST at least on the survivability side? (and if correctly equipped, Reward is stronger than Repair, and each time you call beast it's a fullhealth pet)

Defense wise Avatars have it worst. Sure they're the most easily disposable pets of all (can immediately resummon them) but sometimes on VD they get oneshot before they can even land the Blood Pact, need to act smartly to avoid that, and each time that happens it's 37 waste seconds of cooldown, at best.

[Ophannus]

Pets should be immune to AoE damage. Pets are weak enough as it is across the board. Give them the opposite treatment that Lupons got. Whereas Lupons cannot be directly targetted and only take damage from AoEs, allow pets to only be targeted directly and not subject to AoEs. This may cause a few balance issues like pets avoiding mob's sleepgas or breakgas, but at the end of the day, it would make pet jobs less pointless. To further expound my point, they could make pets take AoE damage if they are the main target(which would then include yourself as well) but if they're low on the hate list and not a direct target, they should just avoid it. I don't think it would be gamebreaking for SMN BST DRG PUP to actually have their pet live more than 30seconds and still contribute damage like those jobs were intended to.

They tried making pets more resilient: Dawn Mulsums, DT%, Steady Wing, Regen on Spirit Link for Wyverns, higher HP jug pets with ilvl stats, DT% for Armor Plates etc. All these are nice but most result in a lowered damage output at best and at worse some of these bonuses have a short duration(3min duration, 5min recast for steady wing) or don't reach muster(30/tick regen isn't gonna save a Wyvern from eating a 1700 AoE every 8 seconds). Hell how about they just give all pets a universal, permanent "Scherzo" effect. If an AoE does more than 50% of their HP in one hit, it gets cut heavily. Make it either a property of all pets(like wyvern and avatar dt%) or make it a special trait that PUP SMN BST DRG get similar to Stalwart Servant. Better yet give that bonus TO Stalwart Servant and give all pet jobs 4-6 tiers of it such that at maximum tier a hit that does more than 50% of a pet's HP is cut to like 10%.

[dasva]

They don't get the mob's attention if you're doing it wrong, I guess. aside from that there's very few monsters where you don't have a jug that does, indeed, have -50% damage built in. A majority of the physical attacks in this game are slashing; even something you'd think is obviously something else, like beastmen's ranged attacks, are slashing damage. there's not much where BST is applicable where the pet can't survive the entire time or with just a single swap with proper preparation. (this includes Normal~VD AAs, which are completely doable using your pets as tanks.)

Well meant getting attention in a pt with real dds that are buffed. Right and using tulfaire gives you a pet that has an att and def penalty on it . Regardless my point was the only extra thing jugs have over avatara is the double hp and probably should throw in reward. So if avatars are getting one shotted jugs should be getting 2shotted

[geno3302]

Right and using tulfaire gives you a pet that has an att and def penalty on it . Regardless my point was the only extra thing jugs have over avatara is the double hp and probably should throw in reward. So if avatars are getting one shotted jugs should be getting 2shotted

It's way more than double isn't it? Don't some BST pets have around 5k? I don't believe avatars have broken 2k HP yet.

[Ophannus]

The pet HP is commensurate with some function of the following 2 factors: 1) Pet Cost(associated recast/necessary item i.e jug) and 2) pet importance to job function. I think the current hierarchy for pet HP is along the lines of BST>DRG>PUP>SMN. Wyverns should technically have the highest HP(20min recast) but because they aren't as important to DRG as an Avatar is to a SMN, they don't have that much higher HP comparatively speaking. BST gets the highest HP because the pet consumes an item and has a fixed limited duration(Autos and Wyverns can, assuming they survive, exist indefinitelty; Avatars cost MP). Avatars have low HP because they're dispensable and cheap, though if they die during BP cast you aren't refunded the ability cast.

It would be a nice remedy if they let SMN's BP timer not be consumed if their pet is incapacitated while it's readying the Blood Pact. They already refund the Blood Pact timer if the mob is out of range while the BP is being readied, why not apply it to if the Avatar is killed while it's readying?

[Draylo]

That and they should also fix the annoying thing where if you use a ward BP and the mob the avatar was meleeing dies, you lose the BP. Or if your avatar is stunned or terror etc.

[Sechs]

...or if your avatar dies etc.
Basically the only circumstance that's contemplated is the "out of range" one.

[Hitou]

Honestly if they just got rid of the 3 second "charge up" timer on BP 90% of them would go off before the avatar died etc. I never understood why avatars and wyverns need to ready their attacks for so long.

[Kurstone]

That and they should also fix the annoying thing where if you use a ward BP and the mob the avatar was meleeing dies, you lose the BP.

pretty sure they fixed this no?,

[dasva]

It's way more than double isn't it? Don't some BST pets have around 5k? I don't believe avatars have broken 2k HP yet.

The mnk ones I think actually break 6k... but then you lose that slashing resistance from the bird. Not really sure on the others hps though I suppose could test that real quick. Though there aren't really any other uncapped ones worth using. The grasshopper is kinda rarish, the frog has worst stats at 119 than falcoor has at 114. The crab is meh and costs plasm ( though you can really jack it's defense up nicely lol) and everything else doesn't go to 119 even with BA+gloves. Also not sure if anyone has tested to see how much hp a 121 avatar is... pet info is kinda spotty . A good thing they could do is import avatars natural pdt to all pets and then remove the old nerf they did to it back in abyssea. Or even raise it to the levels they are doing for geo. If we could cap pet pdt it would increase their survivablity quite nicely

[Tarage]

pretty sure they fixed this no?,

They did.

Except for the stunned part, but really... if your avatar gets stunned it should behave like a melee getting stunned, so I'm okay with this.

[NynJa]

Pets should be immune to AoE damage. Pets are weak enough as it is across the board. Give them the opposite treatment that Lupons got. Whereas Lupons cannot be directly targetted and only take damage from AoEs, allow pets to only be targeted directly and not subject to AoEs. This may cause a few balance issues like pets avoiding mob's sleepgas or breakgas, but at the end of the day, it would make pet jobs less pointless. To further expound my point, they could make pets take AoE damage if they are the main target(which would then include yourself as well) but if they're low on the hate list and not a direct target, they should just avoid it. I don't think it would be gamebreaking for SMN BST DRG PUP to actually have their pet live more than 30seconds and still contribute damage like those jobs were intended to.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLL LLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

If you dont see how fucking flawed this is, I dont know what to tell you. Toss 6 pet jobs at something, and laugh at the fact that at no time at all, AoE damage will be a factor.

[Falkirk]

The mnk ones I think actually break 6k... but then you lose that slashing resistance from the bird. Not really sure on the others hps though I suppose could test that real quick.

Lvl 114
SlipperySilas 3458
DipperYuly 4174
CrudeRaphie 4294
FatsoFargann 4380
GooeyGerard 4380
DiscreetLouise 4692
BugeyedBroncha 5006
LuckyLulush 5006
TurbidToloi 5006
FaithfulFalcorr 5068
FlowerpotMerle 5310
GorefangHobs 5318
BloodclawShasra 5318
DapperMac 5642

Level 118
DroopyDortwin 5348

Level 119
BraveHeroGlenn 4094
SunburstMalfik 5250
AttentiveIbuki 5354
HeraldHenry 5558
ScissorlegXerin 5670
SharpwitHermes 5678
CaringKiyomaro 6346

[Tachi]

To compare
Lvl 75 avatar : 1120 HP
Lvl 95 : 1520
Lvl 99 : 1600
Lvl 121 : 1644... it should be 2040

[Malithar]

Can't find the actual posting by Matsui, but someone on the official forums has a quote of him saying the pet food will include +att, +acc, +ratt, +racc. Quote here. Might be Google translate butchering it, but at the end it says something like "the effect will be valid even after calling your pet" so maybe you use the food, and it gives you all +acc or whatever, and also gives you Pet: +acc etc, rather than directly giving your pets the buffs.