Dev Tracker: Discussion

[fantasticdan]

I think pup has throwing due to it being a sorta juggler. It's just that its functioning in game doesn't go along with that characterization.

That would make sense if they put pup on any throwing weapons ever, at least junk like darts/bomb arms/grenades/pebbles/etc, but they didn't. All it can equip are all jobs stuff like sky winds or aureole.

[Prothescar]

Classic SE. Do they not realize that the issue with MNK is the fact that it's effectively wearing a 2h weapon on each fist in addition to having enormous survivability and extremely good damage buffing abilities? Changing TP gain won't do shit except possibly fuck over the jobs that they're trying to make better. Nerf their survivability or nerf their base damage and they'll be in line with everyone who isn't RNG, PLD, BRD, and WHM. That's a whole 'nother problem that likely will never be addressed, though. Coronach, Namas, etc. need a downside to them, or enmity needs to be fixed for every job without a nigh hateless weaponskill and an enmity dump JA. That's ignoring the advantage that a ranged class has when it comes to AoE damage, but... fuck.

[Fwahm]

Ignoring mobs weak or resistant to everything,

Slashing Resistance: Skeletons, Ghosts, Corse, Slimes, Umbril, Rocs, Tulfaires, Flans, Slimes, Mantids, Naraka, Cracklaw, Adamantoise, Dullahan
Slashing Weakness: Hounds, Rafflesia, Raaz?

Blunt Resistance: Doomed, Flans, Ghosts, Hecteyes, Leeches, Acuex, Slimes, Raaz?, Snapweed?
Blunt Weakness: Pots, Skeletons, Corses, Adamantoises, Naraka, Cracklaw?, Dullahan

Piercing Resistance: Skeletons, Corses, Flans (only in spiky mode), Ghosts, Slimes, Snapweed?, Cracklaw?, Umbril
Piercing Weakness: Birds, Bats, Bat Trios, Tulfaires, Heartwings, Apkallus, Rocs, Colibri, Twitherym, Fluterini, Ladybugs, Imps, Mantids, Raaz?, Puks, Mandragoras, Flies, Harpeia, Waktza

Slashing not only has the most mob types resistant to it, but also has the least mob types weak to it.

[Priran]

Classic SE. Do they not realize that the issue with MNK is the fact that it's effectively wearing a 2h weapon on each fist in addition to having enormous survivability and extremely good damage buffing abilities? Changing TP gain won't do shit except possibly fuck over the jobs that they're trying to make better. Nerf their survivability or nerf their base damage and they'll be in line with everyone who isn't RNG, PLD, BRD, and WHM. That's a whole 'nother problem that likely will never be addressed, though. Coronach, Namas, etc. need a downside to them, or enmity needs to be fixed for every job without a nigh hateless weaponskill and an enmity dump JA. That's ignoring the advantage that a ranged class has when it comes to AoE damage, but... fuck.

Nerf the survivability of the only melee job with the survivability to be taken when AoE damage is a factor, that'll fix RNG!

Significant damage reduction on AoEs for everyone but the main target, stop giving every AoE shit-wrecking additional effects, buff the base damage on weapons besides H2H and Ranged, and improve Stringing Pummel significantly. There, all fixed.

Maybe toss in an enmity reduction trait for 2-handers, I dunno. They're definitely barking up the wrong tree by messing with TP gain, though.

...

Slashing not only has the most mob types resistant to it, but also has the least mob types weak to it.

My mistake, then. I think I still have a good point with amorphs preferentially resisting Blunt more than others, considering the impending addition of Xol.

[Ophannus]

Doesn't formless circumvent blunt resistance? Freakin MNk is a Swiss Army knife. Aren't Swiss Army knife jobs supposed to be weak i.e RDM? Why nerf twilight scythe but keep formless the way it is? Make it a 90 second duration. No reason for it to be used for 3 min. Want magic dmg? Bring a SCH or SMN not Fist Mage. No more of this "waiting 6 min for formless to be back up so we can kill krabatoa". Seriously, as stated before, MNKs fists are basically dual wielded 90 delay 200 damage greatswords. Mnks punching for 400-500 a fist and I'm swinging a 500 delay lance for 650-700. It's absurd but I digress. SE promised not to nerf anymore so we'll see. I still dont know why they did the 1buff to undue the bonus that 2h were supposed to have over 1h weapons. Why did they even bother with 2h buffs if they were going to just generalize it over to 1h weapons later on. They originally said the bonus would only affect 1handed weapons too but then caved and gave it to MnKs too.

I'd say nerf for formless or make mobs resistant to breath over time but that only hurts blu drg and pld so meh...

[Draylo]

RNG is more overused than MNK atm, who cares about Delve 1.0.

[Priran]

Doesn't formless circumvent blunt resistance? Freakin MNk is a Swiss Army knife. Aren't Swiss Army knife jobs supposed to be weak i.e RDM? Why nerf twilight scythe but keep formless the way it is? Make it a 90 second duration. No reason for it to be used for 3 min. Want magic dmg? Bring a SCH or SMN not Fist Mage. No more of this "waiting 6 min for formless to be back up so we can kill krabatoa". Seriously, as stated before, MNKs fists are basically dual wielded 90 delay 200 damage greatswords. Mnks punching for 400-500 a fist and I'm swinging a 500 delay lance for 650-700. It's absurd but I digress. SE promised not to nerf anymore so we'll see. I still dont know why they did the 1buff to undue the bonus that 2h were supposed to have over 1h weapons. Why did they even bother with 2h buffs if they were going to just generalize it over to 1h weapons later on. They originally said the bonus would only affect 1handed weapons too but then caved and gave it to MnKs too.

I'd say nerf for formless or make mobs resistant to breath over time but that only hurts blu drg and pld so meh...

MNK is not a jack-of-all-trades, that's dumb. That's like saying "DRG can DD, shed hate, heal people, AND reduce defense??? What a jack-of-all-trades, kill its DD potential!"

Formless and Mantra existed for years and practically nobody merited them or knew they even existed. MNK existed for years and nobody took it to anything. What changed is that content started being catered to MNK's strengths, being higher survivability than other DDs, while other DDs' strengths weren't very useful. MNK (and RNG) are not useful simply because of their damage. Put an equally geared, well buffed MNK, WAR, and RNG on a Lv.125 punching bag and the MNK and WAR will do similar damage and the RNG will get wrecked. The problem is when that punching bag isn't a punching bag, it's an angry ice lion dealing 2.2k damage AOE with a full dispel: the WAR dies, the MNK stays a serviceable if MP sponging DD, and the RNG keeps hitting his /ra macro and watching youtube videos.

[Prothescar]

That isn't all that's changed. Observe the dps curve of MNK weapons compared to any other weapon class. That in combination with 1h buffs and whatnot has been a substantial increase to MNK's standing.

[Priran]

That isn't all that's changed. Observe the dps curve of MNK weapons compared to any other weapon class. That in combination with 1h buffs and whatnot has been a substantial increase to MNK's standing.

That brought MNK closer to parity with other DDs. MNK used to get smoked in DPS. Observe how much MNK was taken to endgame when Reso WAR was a thing, or at any point in the game where the strategy was to zerg.

[PSOfanatic]

I feel like RNG is the big job that needs to be nerfed. The whole PLD+RNG thing is so incredibly broken. MNK really is not that bad...not NEARLY as OP has RNG is.

I feel as though SE just needs to get rid of damage resistances all together. That kind of cockblocks most every job that isn't too proficient with 2 or more types of damage. I mean look at samurai...pretty much stellar for Delve 2.0. Then you could have a Ryunohige DRG and be pretty much useless because you lack a decent blunt weapon. The whole damage resistance thing...should of never been in this game. They either need to make content less difficult or make it so people aren't so god damn picky about the jobs they want. Having to gear a new job from the ground up AND requiring a relic/mythic is just dumb. You shouldn't need gear like that to do content but everyone makes it a requirement. I blame the game more than the players. SE doesn't know how to balance.

[Toth]

And us PUPs are going to be negatively affected by these changes

[sahearniitth]

RNG is only OP atm because of their ability to deal damage while staying out of AOE which means they don't loose buffs (since everything spams dispel now) or require healing (freeing up more buff spots in pty). With Anni they can perform their dmg without risk of pulling hate. However most fights where a melee can engage without risk of dying to AOE (and having to gear defensively because of such rather than focusing on dmg gear) the melee will outperform the RNG. Also RNG was ignored for years (other than delve 1 clears till people figured out MNK was the way to go) so I don't feel they need to be nerfed. Rather SE's aoe system which has been stupid from day 1 needs to be adjusted.

[Damane]

I feel like RNG is the big job that needs to be nerfed. The whole PLD+RNG thing is so incredibly broken. MNK really is not that bad...not NEARLY as OP has RNG is.

I feel as though SE just needs to get rid of damage resistances all together. That kind of cockblocks most every job that isn't too proficient with 2 or more types of damage. I mean look at samurai...pretty much stellar for Delve 2.0. Then you could have a Ryunohige DRG and be pretty much useless because you lack a decent blunt weapon. The whole damage resistance thing...should of never been in this game. They either need to make content less difficult or make it so people aren't so god damn picky about the jobs they want. Having to gear a new job from the ground up AND requiring a relic/mythic is just dumb. You shouldn't need gear like that to do content but everyone makes it a requirement. I blame the game more than the players. SE doesn't know how to balance.

Rng isnt viable everywhere. they are viable in all AAs & 2 other hardmode fights or so & marjami delve (unless you bead on the other 3) thats it. thats not even counting in skirmish etc. thats less then 50% endgame content

[Kyte]

VW was honestly great for getting to hate your server, had tons of interactions with people I never would have otherwise.

fixed

[Priran]

Rng isnt viable everywhere. they are viable in all AAs & 2 other hardmode fights or so & marjami delve (unless you bead on the other 3) thats it. thats not even counting in skirmish etc. thats less then 50% endgame content

RNG doesn't need to be optimal to be taken to things because they require minimal support and never take hate. For RNG to not be preferable to any other DD, they need to literally do damage so poor you either time out or (in delve) their addition to the group adds more HP than they would deal.

so they're good in:

every single AA fight
DM
muyingwa
cailimh
utkux
nagmolada
ealdnarche
ouryu

not worth taking:

wopket

[Sechs]

1Handed Jobs needed the 1:0,75 stats conversion ratio change, it's still not enough likely but that's also because many 1h WS aren't as good as other WSs.
MNK was already in a good position BEFORE the ratio change, and they actually gave monk an 1:0,66 conversion ratio for attack.

Altough this concern of MNK being too powerul was maybe an issue some time ago, is it still an issue today? Not so much with Delve 2.0 and other content where MNK is either not wanted or not better than other options (SAM, RNG etc).
I concur with Draylo here.
Worrying about this "issue" now seems incredibly late and useless, problem is already "solved".

There are many reasons why MNK happened to fall into current situations, the main ones are:
1) H2H weapons saw the biggest increase in damage (see what Prothescar said) in SoA
2) Content was made to cater to MNK's pros


And between these two, I feel the latter is the big culprit.
Atm I'm more concerned about RNG, even if it's not optimal for everything (like Damane said), it's still a bit of a broken and boring setup because it makes everything safer, with a higher degree of success. Requires less coordination, skill and gear than other viable job combinations do.
But, again, more than issue with RNG itself, it's an issue with how content is made and how the game works.
Enmity is broken. Probably not abyssea-days broken, but still broken. A tank cannot possibly keep hate from DDs, aside from maybe a few gimmicky situations. They need to do something about and give more maningful passive (job trait) stats to jobs meant to be tanking.
FFXI is the only MMO where I've seen tank having so many issues and requiring so many not-built-in things to do their jobs (mandatory gear, mandatory buffs, etc).
In ALL MMOs that I can think of, tanks would get everything they need from their JA, spells and traits and everything else was just something making their job better/easier, not some mandatory thing without which you can't even do waht your job was meant for.
How retarded is that?

I think they should focus on fixing this (enmity) and AoE damage on targets other than the main one, isntead of going the useless route of fixing one job only to break another.
The STP thing won't change anything for the majority of jobs and will just end up making SAM broken, I'm afraid.

[Sechs]

Those sound fun, I think a VW type thing would be nice for community stuff. I barely do things with the server anymore compared to VW days.

Bringing back VW casual grouping is something I'd welcome.
The situation that was around (at least on my server) around VW... not so much. I remember that as one of the worst periods of my FFXI, where the "players-divide" (using this similarly to "digital-divide") went beyond insane and you were required to have an RME to be even consdiered for easy VW content, no matter if my level99 PUP using Burattinaois (silly hyperbolyzed example) could do more damage than your average RME job.
But hey! He has RME! He has to be good! Let's get him.

And the usual annoying attitude "hey if you care for that job get an RME! Otherwise stop playing that job" which is just silly.

I mean I could partially understand this attitude for content which was really hard and where the meaningful difference in weapons would have produced a meaningful difference in players choice.
But for VW?!
Seriously, even though this is clearly a community-type of issue, it's the game and SE which favoured it and did absolutely nothing to contain it (until SoA came out).
I really really wish I'll never have to see those days for common content anymore.

[Maurauc]

Get Ready for Summer with the Next Version Update! (23/05/2014)
http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics...2530/12530.jpg

The next version update for FINAL FANTASY XI is scheduled to come blazing into Vana'diel in mid-June, bringing with it improvements to various weapon skills; changes to the TP system; and a variety of improvements to synthesis, including kit recipes to make gathering ingredients easier, a convenient synthesis history list, and improvements to item stacking.

On the combat front, steel yourself for a merit point expansion, geomancer and rune fencer weapon skill quests, a means to improve weapons acquired in reives, a new Mog Garden rank, fresh Seekers of Adoulin quests to steep you in the lore of this fine city, new Records of Eminence objectives, and Trust improvements such as being able to use alter egos in parties and new types of content.

Check this space in the coming days for more details!

Neat!

[Prothescar]

some really nice stuff, should be one of the better updates we've had in a few months (discounting wardrobe, that's the best thing since forever).

[NynJa]

Trusts in parties fk yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa