Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Martel]

Or else how can you create a different character from another player if both have same job lv 99 and same gears? The optimal playing style is the same, your gear is the same(and gears are easy to obtain in 2014 that there's no way you can make your character different by gears), you can only rely on merit to create a different character and even that is going away.

oh I dunno. I' say between Ryunohige, and Huginn Gambieras my DRG is fairly different.

Sure you said two players with the same gear.However, there are very few players with both of those. I mean, there's got to be thousands of DRG's with the exact same merit setup as I have. But probably ~100 players with both those items.

Lets' see.. looking at FFXIAH.. 78 listed Huginn Gambieras, and 38 Ryunohige. Now of course, there's actually going to be more than that. Not everyone uses AH or guildwork. Particularly the JP community. But there are 13 players on both of those lists. I'd say that sets a player apart rather more than his merit choices.

Of course, not every job's optimal equipment is so rare, or difficult to acquire.

[dasva]

Part of the problem with the whole different way of playing customization thing is the choices aren't even comparable most the time. For skill ones you sink them into the ones you use often that matter. For stats it's pretty much always dex/str except for the odd mage onry person that does int/mnd. Most the job ones have vast disparities in usefulness to the point where some are a definite include and others completely worthless. Most people merit hp especially tarus pre adjustment.

In a lot of ways merits are no longer about customization so much as just another version of skilling up really

[fantasticdan]

That's the way they always were. The only real exception I can remember was the rdm ones back at 75 cap, and even than it was often more about splitting the merits with an LS member or whatever than personal customization.

[dasva]

Well some have changed... like BA was a very personal preference... now it's mandatory. But main point was merits don't really differentiate people of the same gear because anyone with good gear is going to have those same merits too

[ccl]

It's nice we're getting so much buff lately, it prolly mean the next tier of content difficulty will come out soon maybe; I hope we get something as challenging as delve 1 on release or VD stellar!

[Karbuncle]

It's so funny when Draylo complains about people complaining.

Everyone can be driven to a short temper through stupidity and whining. Regardless of legitimacy, and especially if its habitual.

[Draylo]

It's nice we're getting so much buff lately, it prolly mean the next tier of content difficulty will come out soon maybe; I hope we get something as challenging as delve 1 on release or VD stellar!

I hope so man, we need it lol

[arus2001]

I never understood why so many people are against them limiting the number of things we can max out given that it's a common thing to have in just about every RPG. It's kinda boring if you could just grind your heart out until everything is maxed, IMO.

Late to the party, but not everyone wants to be a one or two job wonder, and with the rate of acquisition linked to JPs at the moment, the game is kind of shifting back to a point where focusing on one job is better than multiple. This is an issue XIV is facing, too, with the emphasis on time gating and lacking top tier alternative gear. Now, in XI's case, maxing merits might not be the most difficult or time consuming activity anymore, but the only real prevailing argument other than "Cuz we said so!" comes from those who want to feel they're THE x-job and that someone who doesn't play x-job 24/7 and put their all into that has no right to be in the same league. And to me, that's just being childish and petty. The job system is one of this game's strengths and anything that hamstrings that both cheapens it and diminishes the potential worth of more versatile players.

But being more objective to what XI has presented us with its merit options, there's some obvious, "If you pick this, you're a retard!" choices in the line-up. This is either because alternatives or so much better or what it does offer is just really insignificant. If they're never chosen, giving the option to pick them up after the fact isn't going to be the end of the world and I can't really think of any jobs who'd suddenly be wtfbroken if they could merit everything. Granted, SE would have to go through them all and add some options, as not everyone actually has the same amount of choices. Hell, even that is part of the problem with the cap limitations. Want all the RDM merit spells? Enjoy their collective mediocrity. That's not fun. Hell, that probably contributed to their removal from the VW proc list. Players just didn't want shitty options.

So, while it's true someone might grind everything out within a week and assert everyone else is the same, like I advocate with XIV, that simply wouldn't be the case. And as long as SE doesn't balance around the "max everything" mentality, then those without the giant glut of free time aren't automatically left behind. Community demands may be another issue, but I think that answer lies more in rewarding people for helping their lesser peers instead of doing nothing and just letting pickiness perpetuate.

[Ophannus]

There's no point to the 'Max Everything' mentality when it comes to merit points. Some people believe all merits should be uncapped but then isn't it just the equivalent of leveling up, albeit, more slowly? Merits were intended to be that little extra something that wouldn't make or break you but would give your favorite jobs a bit of an edge. Unfortunately merits became more than that. Trobadour,Nightingale,Saberdance,Angon,Dia III,Formless Strikes, Feint. All of these are far to good to not have. It's hard to have a system that fosters individualization in an online game, especially when the playerbase loves to crunch numbers and then pigeon hole the best setups. Sure you could be a RDM that 'specializes' in Bio III and Blind II and those spells are good, -40acc or -15% Attack Down are pretty strong, it's just that they're not as good as Paralyze and -15% defense down.
I for one like the customization of merits and would have liked to see more of a skill tree or something. But I guess even that would have been dissected down to the 'most efficient path is path X", kinda like how nobody really uses the MP paths or HP paths for Delve Gear.

[fantasticdan]

I don't think many people have issue with how job merits work, the vast majority of complaints are about attributes/combat skills/magic skills/weapon skills. As in, jobs getting cockblocked by your other jobs.

[Ophannus]

Even though we have a job system, I kinda always ft they want players to have 2-3 main jobs which they use combat/magic merits for and that's what they bring to endgame content. SE probably presumes players with multiple jobs have them for flexibility for like if a main Brd isn't on or if you need to lowman something and need to change to a pld. To have every job at mad potential seems idyllic. How many endgame people here can say honestly that they have god-tier equipment(literally the best) for more than 4 jobs. It's possible but it's not the majority of the end game community. Typically people have 2-3 favored jobs which are top tier equippment then maybe 2-3 utility jobs which are great/good and then maybe an auxiliary utility job they has passable/par equipment like for bringing TH8 THF to bead farming but has no TP or WS gear etc.

[dasva]

Even though we have a job system, I kinda always ft they want players to have 2-3 main jobs which they use combat/magic merits for and that's what they bring to endgame content. SE probably presumes players with multiple jobs have them for flexibility for like if a main Brd isn't on or if you need to lowman something and need to change to a pld. To have every job at mad potential seems idyllic. How many endgame people here can say honestly that they have god-tier equipment(literally the best) for more than 4 jobs. It's possible but it's not the majority of the end game community. Typically people have 2-3 favored jobs which are top tier equippment then maybe 2-3 utility jobs which are great/good and then maybe an auxiliary utility job they has passable/par equipment like for bringing TH8 THF to bead farming but has no TP or WS gear etc.

Right now I'd agree but back in the day of lateral progression it was more common to have the jobs you played to be highly geared at least amongst the groups that did. Now it's just too hard to keep up so even though it's much easier to level, skill and merit jobs and more people have more leveled and play more it's as you said to the point of only really keeping up with 2-3 and maybe having the others a few ilvls behind

[fantasticdan]

Even with just 2-3 jobs, you can run into problems with merits very easily. Pretty much everyone gets locked out of int/mnd/agi merits right off the bat because they play at least a single melee job. And for magic skills, I can't even merit everything I want for blu + sch, let alone have the space for something like summoning skill. God forbid you want to spent 16 of your merits in that category on brd or geo skills.

[arus2001]

Yeah, it being hard to "keep up" for now isn't really a good argument against as I'd almost call this a transitional period much like 76-99 was. Right now it CAN seem rough, especially with already-dead/dying party/alliance content out there and the JP system being a Korean grinder's wet dream, but I would hope that isn't always going to be the case once the Adoulin plot levels off and the 119-game is better fleshed out.

[Xantavia]

So, while it's true someone might grind everything out within a week and assert everyone else is the same, like I advocate with XIV, that simply wouldn't be the case. And as long as SE doesn't balance around the "max everything" mentality, then those without the giant glut of free time aren't automatically left behind. Community demands may be another issue, but I think that answer lies more in rewarding people for helping their lesser peers instead of doing nothing and just letting pickiness perpetuate.

I'm afraid they are going to do this though. It seemed (to me at least) that they started balancing content around people having R/M/E before ilvl became a thing which was ridiculous. If something makes a significant difference, where do they draw the line? Assume people don't have it and the fights become a cakewalk for those who do, or make it impossible unless you have the best of the best. Having various difficulty for fights is a good idea, but are the rewards for the hardest fights worth it instead of going easy mode for the guaranteed win.

[Darkmagi]

Therein lies the problem with the difficulty system, they need to provide some substantial benefit to doing VD to make them worthwhile, exclusive drops or something.

[Draylo]

The drop rates are so much higher in VD, I never even bother with E or VE. I would like some exclusive drops though.

[Damane]

The drop rates are so much higher in VD, I never even bother with E or VE. I would like some exclusive drops though.

i think the system is fine as it is. Eclusive drops to VD would only stir up more problems then solve anything. the higher drop rate chance and more mats/RME upgrade/chapters a are really a good counterpart to easier modes.

[arus2001]

I'm afraid they are going to do this though. It seemed (to me at least) that they started balancing content around people having R/M/E before ilvl became a thing which was ridiculous. If something makes a significant difference, where do they draw the line? Assume people don't have it and the fights become a cakewalk for those who do, or make it impossible unless you have the best of the best. Having various difficulty for fights is a good idea, but are the rewards for the hardest fights worth it instead of going easy mode for the guaranteed win.

Perhaps unpopular in these parts, but letting the RMEs rot due to their "requirement" would've been okay with me. :/

But since they're not, I'm still pretty much gung ho on the pre-ilvl phase acquisition being eased up significantly when it comes to things like alexandrite, plates, or other super time-sinky aspects.

[Priran]

I'm afraid they are going to do this though. It seemed (to me at least) that they started balancing content around people having R/M/E before ilvl became a thing which was ridiculous. If something makes a significant difference, where do they draw the line? Assume people don't have it and the fights become a cakewalk for those who do, or make it impossible unless you have the best of the best. Having various difficulty for fights is a good idea, but are the rewards for the hardest fights worth it instead of going easy mode for the guaranteed win.

SE doesn't balance around RMEs, they balance around the next-best weapons which in the case of most weapons bar a few mythics and the RNG relics is a relatively small difference.

Everybody has to choose between the guaranteed win or the harder mode for possibly better drops, the difference is that when you're passably geared that might be a decision between N or D, but if you're maxed out it's D or VD.