Dev Tracker: Discussion

[dasva]

Thought it always was ja... either way with capped ja and magic haste only need 12 gear to cap total

[Darkmagi]

Slow II is stronger than Elegy with Saboteur and high dMND, even on NMs where Saboteur is nerfed. Elegy is 50%, while a properly geared and maxed Slow II is 72.5% slow (if Enhances Enfeebles stacks multiplicatively with Saboteur) or 68.8% slow (if it stacks additively).

Of course, you have to have 5 merits in Slow II, and mobs like Tojil seem to have attributes of 200+, so you won't be capping dMND without weird stuff like etudes (or Impact, I suppose).

Slow/paralyze merits do not go beyond the cap. Cap dMND will still have the same potency with or without max merits. Was a fair bit of slow testing a long time ago confirming this.

[Fwahm]

Slow/paralyze merits do not go beyond the cap. Cap dMND will still have the same potency with or without max merits. Was a fair bit of slow testing a long time ago confirming this.

Not according to https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Slow_II

[grevenilvec75]

[*]Instead of one spell, please allow the ability to affect all enfeebling magic cast for a duration.
Since the ability also affects Silence and Sleep which can completely stop the enemy from performing certain actions, if we were to give the ability a duration, it would be possible to continuously neutralize an enemy for a duration. If we had to consider such tactics when creating new monsters, we no longer be able to avoid placing immunities on certain monsters, which would then serve to narrow the available tactics to players in general. Because of this, the ability only affects the first spell.

Translation: If we make it useful, people might actually use it!

[Bukadan]

sleep is nearly the same as stun when cast on a mob readying a move or spell.so now you want sleep stunning to be as effective as that? oh that naakual is immune to stun? just sleep stun it. we want new battle strats and engagement rules, not the exact same battle techniques that we use now.

[Cairthenn]

What fantastic logic, it's almost like they couldn't make a mob immune to sleep as well.

[dasva]

If by as effective you mean litterally 5 times longer to cast and when you are fighting wears off much faster and will always have a higher chance to resist due to less resist states then yes it is as effective <.<

Edit: Also brds can already do that with N/T and blms will be able to do that with their sp2...

[Bukadan]

if they say that extending it for a duration of 30-60s would be unbalanced and unbalancing it would include removing certain enfeebles from the realm of being able to land AT ALL, keeping in mind sleep and stuns function only, (then thinking theres any other work around or something to make it last longer is just stupid) the only thing is to take it as is and live/work with it, or beg for a completely new sp2.

[Malithar]

just sleep stun it. we want new battle strats and engagement rules, not the exact same battle techniques that we use now.

the point is, it allows for groups that need a little breather mid fight to have access to it.

Doesn't exactly look like the point you were making... Specially considering thats a tactic that's very possible right now.

Far as new battle strats go though, FFXI is kinda played out at this point. Delve as a whole was a success IMO as far as creating new battle strat requirements, but it's been a long while since something other than "buff, stun, zerg" was needed. Even then, the mega bosses still use that strat. Bigger bags of HP with more damaging moves has been their go to, and it's really gotten old.

Personally, I was really excited when they added Cardinal Chant for Geo's. Not because the trait is all that useful, but it's a system that they could incorporate into fights very easily, I think. x amount of players to the left of the mob? y reaction/attack. Anyone behind takes a non attack round/TP move hit from its tail, etc. Repeat for all the directions. Making us positionally aware again would be a breath of fresh air. Kills me anytime I low man a wyrm with someone and they stand directly in front of it, or behind it.

[Yugl]

FFXI has room to improve tactics, but SE never really takes advantage of them. They could use territorial traps as they did with Diabolos, but they didn't bother. They could make fights add intensive, but they haven't since VW (Tbh, that was PLD territory more than add clearance)? They could use auras and TP moves to require players to obtain certain status effects to prevent DMG from varied moves etc (ex: Players need to move to the aura to obtain status effect X and mobs use AoE moves that KO or place heavy DoT if they don't have status effect X). They haven't employed these ideas. One area SE could improve vastly would be the ability to retry content should the alliance wipe. Atm, most content is "HP, return, and buy new pop item." If they could save progress and make players return to the last checkpoint, that would help make content more enjoyable for every range of players. The NQ players receive better opportunities to complete these challenges and HQ players can easily learn mechanics as they progress through content.

[Warusha]

Yilbegan type dragons have the directional tp moves, but I think all mega bosses should have 2-3 moves depending on target's direction.

[NynJa]

To the diabolos fight, making the battlefield less predictable (ie: having 5 fixed safe spots) would be more interesting, as long as they give ample time for people to move.

Reactional positioning could be interesting too. Say a mob who deals heavy conal damage based on 8 directions and you have to keep out of its line of sight. As the fight progresses its conal attacks become thinner but it can attack two directions, then 3, then 4.

There are strategic fights that could be employed. A mob who channels a certain element (ie: casts firaa3-4 then if it casts 5, battle auto ends/deals massive damage bypassing aegis etc, cosmic elucidation style) and the only way to stop it would be dealing a lv1 SC of the opposite element.

There could be mobs that are specifically weak to MBs (think qutrub style), where they take 20x mb damage, but it doesnt generate standard enmity. This way you CANT power through with mnks and reso and are forced to rely on SC/MB.

How about a mob who forces everyone to control enmity, by countering enmity shifts with an instant deals 95%hp damage attack? Except this involves reworking enmity system due to once you hit cap, youre fucked.


There are plenty of ways to add innovative battlefields that dont require massive fuck you moves only avoidable by stun.

[Damane]

To the diabolos fight, making the battlefield less predictable (ie: having 5 fixed safe spots) would be more interesting, as long as they give ample time for people to move.

Reactional positioning could be interesting too. Say a mob who deals heavy conal damage based on 8 directions and you have to keep out of its line of sight. As the fight progresses its conal attacks become thinner but it can attack two directions, then 3, then 4.

There are strategic fights that could be employed. A mob who channels a certain element (ie: casts firaa3-4 then if it casts 5, battle auto ends/deals massive damage bypassing aegis etc, cosmic elucidation style) and the only way to stop it would be dealing a lv1 SC of the opposite element.

There could be mobs that are specifically weak to MBs (think qutrub style), where they take 20x mb damage, but it doesnt generate standard enmity. This way you CANT power through with mnks and reso and are forced to rely on SC/MB.

How about a mob who forces everyone to control enmity, by countering enmity shifts with an instant deals 95%hp damage attack? Except this involves reworking enmity system due to once you hit cap, youre fucked.


There are plenty of ways to add innovative battlefields that dont require massive fuck you moves only avoidable by stun.

I do think we are going in a good direction. the Delve mobs (not megabosses) have some very interesting mechanics FFXI didnt have before. The pugil gaining insane en-dmg when absorbing spells, the matamata shifting from physical to magical dmg taken on each TP move etc. depending on dmg taken. The raptor insta-rageing when takeing magical dmg. krabakarpo needing 3 different types of dmg. the gnat with debuffs staying on and the need of different types of attacks. etc. I think they will expand on such things as matsui said that setup will require sometimes specific jobs. Which is totally fine. there is still potential left, for example they could play with charm and adds, makeing it a requirment to charm adds and throw them back at the mob to even be able to dmg it and forceing the almost entire pt/ally to sub /bst.
also yes some moveing around due to tp moves would be nice or floor thing like diabolos would be fun.

[arus2001]

I'm *pretty sure* as long as the mob 'readies' the move, it can be learned. Been so long since I've had to learn anything in those conditions so I'm not 100%

This. Learning can be fickle enough as is, but with the general population seemingly scared shitless of stunning a mob when trying to learn, obviously the comparative pooling is not going to favor stunned learning. I want to say I've done it, though, even if it's been years.

New RDM SP still sucks. Fuck you, Matsui.

[dasva]

New RDM SP still sucks. Fuck you, Matsui.

At this rate I'd take the original rdm sp2. It sucked but at least it wasn't 100% inferior to something I could use from a subjob and with a little tweaking could've been actually nice

[Trigun]

NulDeath > Stymie

[Ophannus]

I guess Stymie could be useful on mobs with craploads of m.eva but for fights where you can cap m.acc pretty easily like low-man 6 man fights, RDM's SP2 won't be very helpful unlike DRK/WAR/SAM/NIN/RNGs. Hopefully they add more magic for RDM. I mean WHM got Arise, BLM got Meteor, was RDM's ultimate lv99 spell really Gravity II?

[arus2001]

Gravity wouldn't be so bad if they split the -eva from the weight effect and just let the latter succumb to resist building/immunity. Then again, I have no clue how the spell fares on Adoulin NMs. Been lots of ideas for debuffs over the years, though, which makes it really fucking dumb that SE thinks niche sleep or silence spam is OP.

It's not a constant mechanic, but I like how XIV has handled some enfeebles. Sleep a mob and first time it lasts for 30s, then 15s, then 7s, then back to 30s. Some spells/abilities do become immune, though, like the slow effect from one of LNC's abilities on bosses. I know XI is slower paced overall, but immunities decaying or resetting would be nice.

[fantasticdan]

You can land gravity on most delve NMs, but people are gonna cap acc without it anyway.

[dasva]

Plus you can get -25% evasion from bst and it lands but nobodies brings bst for that or at all lol