Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Damane]

tbh the droprate on them was pretty good in DMV2 compared to normal AA weapons - at least that's the totally biased oppinion I got.

the drop rate really was good, on the normal DM fight we did with 7-8 people allways at least one seraphicaller or Divinator would drop from one of the 5 AAs.

[dasva]

I have a feeling that Phantom Gem fights were meant to release side-grades and anything that drops from there will eventually be outclasses by forthcoming endgame 18-man content. It's usually how it seems to work. Also I think they're going to be making a Meebles II or something.(Also there hasnt been a purpose for meeble boss drops yet over a year or two later -_-)

While a lot of the stuff sorta is sidegrades some of it is semi unique and therefore bis for that. Most of it is for pets but meh.

[FNH]

Punishing people for having their friends quit the game is a big no-no. Adjusted reward pool's for having more people: sure, no one will complain about that. But saying "you cant get this item because you dont know 17 other competant players" is a big fuck you to the majority (and yes, it is the majority who is incapable of constantly fielding 18 people)

The game isn't supposed to be easy with everyone being able to obtain the elite items. You should probably go back to Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

[fantasticdan]

They should start adding 72 man content balanced around the DPS of 60+ 119 relic rngs that drops it's own tier of gear, that way we know who's really elite.

[Prothescar]

just gonna repost here


worst part of alliance content for me was always waiting for 17 other people to arrive and be ready to do things in addition to those 17 other people being good enough to not jeopardize the event. that's why I like the 6-man centric gameplay of modern XI; less reliance on other people for scheduling and success. removes negative variables. I don't really believe in locking others out of content based on their ability to find large quantities of other people to play with who have matching schedules and actually know how to play the game. It's a dumb practice and honestly there's better ways of making alliance content than that. The current DM system would be fine if they added additional rewards for the higher difficulties that require an alliance, like large amounts of JP or something.

alliance based content really isn't any show of skill above well tuned 6man content, all it really shows is that you managed to somehow find enough people to actually do it, and by some miracle they were competent enough to follow basic instructions. today's server populations don't really allow for this, unless you happen to play during JP time and can communicate with JPs to a degree where you can play with them frequenctly, which can still be sketchy on some servers. all unique 18man content with unique drops would do is lock out a greater majority of the remaining playerbase from completing that content reasonably.

[ccl]

I'd be ok with a 6 man content tiered like legion but everything is so zzzzz boring or reward are bad(or nearly 100% drop rate) that people barely log on anymore.

Something that need 18 to clear but can be half done with 10-12 and get some drop as VD dm/legion would be good enough, but giving easier difficulty is a mistake; it's ok for some content; but some should be VD difficulty only.

[Capuchin]

the drop rate really was good, on the normal DM fight we did with 7-8 people allways at least one seraphicaller or Divinator would drop from one of the 5 AAs.

Decent drop rate or not, still doesn't change that it was the only thing in the game that dropped ANY 119 automaton/avatar item.

I'm fine with specific best-in-slot items coming from specific events, but it's pretty notable that there are zero other 119 options at all for these rather important aspects of two jobs. It's simply not in line with everything else in the game. There are numerous events that drop 119 pieces for all other jobs' weapons and armor.

Anyway, I don't see why it's a big deal that they're making several month old drops a little more accessible, especially when it's not reducing drop rates of any of the other items from these fights. If anything, just like reducing the merit point cost, all this does is make those fights more appealing to more people. Isn't that good for everyone, so it's easier to fill parties and get the other drops you're interested in?

[EjinCaitsith]

I don't understand how people can support the plasm purchase system. Do you like having nothing to do for 6 months+ while afking in town in your Oatixur while your friend list dies off from boredom? I don't think anyone would have supported that system for Delve v1 if they knew they'd have literally nothing else fun/challenging to do in SoA until Delve v2, which has the same asinine system. The only silver lining for the more dedicated players is that the system has allowed for insane gil accumulation, especially recently with reforge armor.

I always thought I preferred 18man content, but with the recent changes to Delve and all the new BCs, I really find myself enjoying 6man. Being able to start whenever a few people are free is really liberating, whereas a few people ditching a 18man event could mean no run at all for the other 14-15 people, which is something I always hated. Not having to deal with all the drama and BS has probably increased my lifespan a fair amount, too. You really don't lose much of the difficulty imo(outside of the artificial difficulty of finding 12 other people that aren't dead weight). Though, to be honest, as long as the system is challenging and rewarding, the # of people doesn't mean much to me in the end.


I'm just hoping the WKR augment system is well thought out and has a modicum of longevity, because there's a high chance we'll see the exact same system for Delve eventually. Who am I kidding, you'll probably only need 1 KI to cap an augment and everyone will finish in 1 weekend of WKR spam.

[NynJa]

The game isn't supposed to be easy with everyone being able to obtain the elite items. You should probably go back to Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

So youre punishing people who dont have a full ls. When everyone quits cause they cant do content because they dont have 18 people, enjoy every server being merged to Asura.

Its gonna be your LS, Draylos LS and a bunch of RMT

[Damane]

Decent drop rate or not, still doesn't change that it was the only thing in the game that dropped ANY 119 automaton/avatar item.

I'm fine with specific best-in-slot items coming from specific events, but it's pretty notable that there are zero other 119 options at all for these rather important aspects of two jobs. It's simply not in line with everything else in the game. There are numerous events that drop 119 pieces for all other jobs' weapons and armor.

Anyway, I don't see why it's a big deal that they're making several month old drops a little more accessible, especially when it's not reducing drop rates of any of the other items from these fights. If anything, just like reducing the merit point cost, all this does is make those fights more appealing to more people. Isn't that good for everyone, so it's easier to fill parties and get the other drops you're interested in?

oh i am not against the adjustments, they should have done it from the start.

[Draylo]

I find it funny how people automatically assume that 18 man can never be hard or challenging compared to 6 man. When Delve 1.0 first came out before we had all this ilevel and such it was one of the hardest events for most people. The fights can become a lot harder with 18 players in mind as it opens up more support options and strategy. Makes me laugh how people automatically go to the "only challenge of 18 man is finding the people" just because they don't have the means to do it. Let's be real, most 6 man events are really like 3 man with mules as support. It's a damn MMO, there are a lot of options to make 18 man more challenging, Delve 1.0 was an example before all the nerfs. I do agree that you should be able to bring lower amounts of people, as it is frustrating when everyone isn't online. I don't agree they should have the same rewards though, not at all. I just wanna see some more alliance events, so tired of low man at this point when everyone did enough of that in Abyssea.

Something that need 18 to clear but can be half done with 10-12 and get some drop as VD dm/legion would be good enough, but giving easier difficulty is a mistake; it's ok for some content; but some should be VD difficulty only.

Agree with this pretty much.

So youre punishing people who dont have a full ls. When everyone quits cause they cant do content because they dont have 18 people, enjoy every server being merged to Asura.

Its gonna be your LS, Draylos LS and a bunch of RMT

If you weren't such a dick people would actually enjoy playing with you that aren't mules. You act like people are asking for NOTHING but alliance events, there is ONE event in the entire fucking game that needs an alliance of 12+ that is VD DM, one event. People are asking for a little more than that, you can low man everything else in this entire game.

[Prothescar]

The amount of people involved has no direct correlation to the difficulty of the battle. It's only made harder/easier if the fights are poorly tuned or if you're padding the 18 with bad players (which, odds are, is the case). Pretty laughable to assume that bigger numbers = harder fights. Delve 1.0 wasn't harder than today's content because you brought 18 people, it was harder because we were fighting NMs with inflated stats without the iLvl crutch. If you go in to a 6man delve today in base lv 99 gear, I guarantee you'd get the same results.

[Draylo]

Except in most MMO's, bigger numbers does equal harder fights. Look at FFXIV for an example as well, 8 man are a lot harder than the 4 man. More people allows for different job combinations in a game with a lot of jobs and it can effect strategies. Delve 1.0 was balanced around an alliance of 9 or more players. It had more to do than just inflated stats, look at how most people don't even know most mechanics behind Delve 2.0, it is because they just brute force everything. Nobody even knows what the zone buff is because its so easy to brute force NMs with such low HP.

[Mefuki]

Ditto everything Prothescar said.

In addition, I'm really fan of Besieged, Campaign, Reive-type content because it IS fun to do wide-scale battles with lots of people and Reive-type content gives the benefit of a sort of drop in-drop out system without having to wait around that much. Also, like I've said before, I think it would be really good thing if SE could correctly implement a sliding scale, from solo all the way up to 18-man, where monster statistics, reward quantity and drop rate/points earned(if it's a point/gear exchange system) scaled with how many you choose to bring. This way, you can log in and start playing any part of the game you want, shout for as much or as little as you want, while still giving incentives to partying up.

Because, while I think lowmanning is the way to go, there should definitely be tangible benefits to good 6+. Which is why I found the Delve adjustments strange.

[pancakesandsex]

Except in most MMO's, bigger numbers does equal harder fights. Look at FFXIV for an example as well, 8 man are a lot harder than the 4 man. More people allows for different job combinations in a game with a lot of jobs and it can effect strategies. Delve 1.0 was balanced around an alliance of 9 or more players. It had more to do than just inflated stats, look at how most people don't even know most mechanics behind Delve 2.0, it is because they just brute force everything. Nobody even knows what the zone buff is because its so easy to brute force NMs with such low HP.

So much this.
They should have left Delve II as 18 man only to start.

[EjinCaitsith]

Or maybe because they aren't as glaringly obvious as ice spikes and floored accuracy.

The problem with Delve is simply that people can get KI once and never step foot in the zone again. Don't pretend they would have stayed any longer if it was 18man only.

[Prothescar]

Don't pretend they would have stayed any longer if it was 18man only.

^this. seriously.


learn a bit about game design then come back to me. number of people is not linked directly to difficulty of content, and being an MMO doesn't inherently mean that every (or any) event should require metric fucktons of people to make things "hard". the reason XIV's 8man content is harder than the 4man content is because it's deliberately made that way. is Crystal Tower the hardest thing in the game because it takes 24 people? no? oh.

the only difference between 6 and 18 man content should be difference in bonus rewards, not the main rewards of the event. and don't make it take a week or less to cap out next time.

[ccl]

Or maybe because they aren't as glaringly obvious as ice spikes and floored accuracy.

The problem with Delve is simply that people can get KI once and never step foot in the zone again. Don't pretend they would have stayed any longer if it was 18man only.

Yup the problem with delve is plasm+ huge drop rate, I really wish now that weapons from delve 1 had like a 5% drop rate and cannot be bough from plasm would have kept the content alive a lot longer being able to buy everything with currency is very bad, maybe they should have made it so you need all 3KI to buy 1 boss drop and make boss drop cause much more too.

I'm not a 18 man event > 6 man event kind of person, but we need something like VW to give more life to this game; and as far as challenging content goes Legion is for me the only one 100% well introduced anything else is either too easy for hardcore group, cap gear too fast or not worth the effort.

[Ophannus]

A healthy dose of solo, 6man and 18man events is key. They'll still always be a desire for 18 man shit like Odin v2, Legion, lv99 ADL (when it was new). Delve, Skirmish and Phantom Gens are nice 6man events though certain jobs clearly steamroll. RoE is decent solo content but rather boring. Was hoping for some kind of solo bcnm/Nm pop/elite mark kind of deal. I fucking swear if there's a bad ass reward from doing all RoE, a lot of people are gonna QQ. As of right now, there's quests that are only unlockable with all 500 unique RoE quests complete. What a chore :/

[Prothescar]

by all means, add 18 man versions of content. but do not lock out everyone who can't muster 17 other decent players from getting the equipment from it. add different incentives for bringing an alliance than that. with legion, you could still get every piece of gear from the event with a less than ideal setup/group, it just took longer.