Dev Tracker: Discussion

[NynJa]

did SE say they were gonna update first 3 WK drops to ilvl 115, or am i mis-remembering / making shit up?

[kasain]

Any idea how emps will be different than woe?

Also no idea why rdms bitch. Even if they got a new cool one hour no one has played the job since vw. Its dead.

But rdms new ability is as bad as schs. Not even a stratagism we get.

Wondering for dagen and empy staff.

[dasva]

Any idea how emps will be different than woe?

Also no idea why rdms bitch. Even if they got a new cool one hour no one has played the job since vw. Its dead.

But rdms new ability is as bad as schs. Not even a stratagism we get.

Wondering for dagen and empy staff.

Aftermath and unlocks empyrean ws easier.

And that is exactly why rdms bitch because we keep getting fucked into uselessness. The original sp2 might have been useful if they had kept the duration increase on it too enough to actually make rdm useful in some things

I like schs. It's the who do I hate most 1hr. I mean can you imagine the hilarity of giving all the hate to a random person lol. Maybe not useful but fun

[Kincard]

There's really few jobs at this point you can't take to just about any event and not have it contribute in a meaningful way especially after they added skill onto weapons, nuking any difficulty into oblivion. RDM is definitely not one of those jobs. Try being a THF or NIN. Not saying the RDM SP2 doesn't suck, but the job itself isn't as bad as a lot of people make it out to be.

[fantasticdan]

Thf and nin still excel at what they always did thou, those things just aren't useful in modern content. Rdm is second rate at it's primary role (support/enfeebling), and third rate at everything else.

[Kincard]

THF has only ever really excelled at making stuff drop more (which is a dumb mechanic that should be removed altogether), and NIN hasn't excelled at anything for a long time. You can talk about how it was a bandwagon job during the Abyssea era but the truth is during that time NIN was far from the strongest job, it's just that everything was so easy that you'd just take the one with the most convienent toolbox (Procs) and one of those jobs was NIN (IE it was a content issue and not a job one). The same problems plaguing the job haven't been addressed since like, the shield patch way, way back and since then making everything in the game have giant shadow exploding AoE moves hasn't made it any better.

[Hitou]

did SE say they were gonna update first 3 WK drops to ilvl 115, or am i mis-remembering / making shit up?

They did say something to that effect. It's unclear if it will only be the new drops they add that will be ilvl 115 or all drops, though. It's part of their futile plan to get people to spam WKR more than once for a clear.

[Ophannus]

It's been said before that jobs that have a wide range of tools and abilities aren't useful for alliance fights where specialized jobs excel. In small 6man fights/battles, you get more bang for your buck by bringing a party of SMN, SCH, RDM, DNC, BLU, NIN because a party like that has a much larger tool box than say a party of WAR, WAR, MNK, SAM, WHM, COR. In an alliance fight, the generalist jobs don't shine because the medicority of their tools becomes more exaggerated. Why take a DNC which is a decent DD and a decent support when you have specialist DDs like MNK and SAM and specialized support like BRD, COR and WHM? DNC is neither as good of a DD as the specialized DD nor as good of a support as BRD COR and WHM. Hybrid jobs really do excel in low man groups where party size is limited; the smaller the party size, then the more useful jobs with multiple roles becomes.


They mentioned increasing the difficulty of WKR's to ilvl116 to match the new WKRs. They said they would implement a system to upgrade current WKR drops to power them up and additionally, add new drops to original WKR(accessories, job specific capes, vouchers exchange for Bayld)

[fantasticdan]

THF has only ever really excelled at making stuff drop more (which is a dumb mechanic that should be removed altogether).

Well yeah, that's all it was ever good at really, besides evasion tanking, and it hasn't gotten worse at those things, it's just SE has made both of them irrelevant by content design. Thf would still be used in delve/skirmish/whatever if TH had a decent impact on drops and/or plasm. When/if we see more regular % drops in fights, people will be bring thf right back again.

I agree about removing TH (or keeping it irrelevant) and improving thfs dps and utility (revamp SATA, improve marks skill + access to endgame crossbows, etc) instead, but I don't see SE ever changing gears on their idea of 'balance' for thf.

NIN hasn't excelled at anything for a long time.

It's still a low TP feed DD that has insane survivability when shadows are actually relevant, it's actually gotten better at this since 75, due to extra shadows, migawari, increased subtle blow/evasion on DDish gear since aby, and the agi-> subtle blow thing, but none of this has been helpful VW and beyond, again due to content design. Almost everything you'd want to evade goes through shadows, everything has regain/scripted TP moves, and survivability(besides having enough effective health to avoid getting gibbed)/mp conservation is not that important in zerg content.

Rdm on the other hand has been usurped by sch|geo|whm for pretty much everything besides a slightly more powerful slow/paralyze. You couldn't create any content right now that would make people say 'hey we should bring a rdm for this instead of one of those jobs.' I mean it's not likely they'll create any content suited for say ninja, but they could lol.

[Fwahm]

That's not true; SE just won't.

They could make something like a mob with a 1000/tic, 5 yalm poison aura, but takes massive ranged and magic damage, to the point that you need to have nukers and rangers kite it with it under Gravity.

Or, a mob with such high evasion that Gravity II's evasion down is still very significant even with double madrigal, sushi, and hunter's roll. Muyingwa before the item level patch was kind of like this, but he was effectively immune to gravity outside of ES due to being wind based.

Or, (getting into weirder situations), a mob that has melee attacks so viscous that you need to chainspell stun it (but with low HP so it dies before chainspell stun ends). Maybe 1500 AoE damage per attack, or maybe a single target physical that inflicts death, but has a 1 second wind up.

I mean, I agree that Red Mage is extremely troubled and needs help, but it doesn't help that SE doesn't put anything into the game that does use their (limited) benefits over other jobs.

[Cairthenn]

Are you not aware that your "weird" situation has already (effectively) had at least three incarnations in this game? Are you also not aware that you can simulate a Chainspell stun with 2 Scholars? Neither of the other situations would necessitate having a Red Mage, either.

[noodles355]

Thf and Nin should just have been the same job tbh.

[Fwahm]

Are you not aware that your "weird" situation has already (effectively) had at least three incarnations in this game? Are you also not aware that you can simulate a Chainspell stun with 2 Scholars? Neither of the other situations would necessitate having a Red Mage, either.

I'm talking about weird for Adoulin, with mobs that build stun resistance (relatively) quickly, and have hundreds of thousands of HP. Previous mobs like Paramount Ironclad have no bearing on whether RDM is useful now.

You can simulate a chainspell stun with 2 SCHs, but that takes two jobs, when a RDM could do it alone. I'm not talking about situations where a RDM is required, but ones where taking a RDM over some other job would actually be recommended.

[Cairthenn]

We took a RDM to every Delve run, and we found it very beneficial. The caveat is they actually have to be a good RDM. Granted, that's only a place for one single RDM, but nothing you're saying is offering any more than that. If you're of the opinion that RDM is useless in it's current state, it's probably because everyone you've seen play it wants to sit back and not do anything.

[CDF]

Speaking of Gravity II, where does evasion -40 come from? I'm looking for any sort of testing on that (says -25 here and -10 for Gravity I)

[NynJa]

They mentioned increasing the difficulty of WKR's to ilvl116 to match the new WKRs. They said they would implement a system to upgrade current WKR drops to power them up and additionally, add new drops to original WKR(accessories, job specific capes, vouchers exchange for Bayld)

Thats why im not entirely sure if this means old WKR drops will be automatically adjusted to ilvl116, or the old loot will remain and new loot will be adde as well

Content Level Adjustment of Existing Wildskeeper Reives
Because Ceizak Battlegrounds, Foret de Hennetiel, and Morimar Basalt Fields Wildskeeper Reives were implemented from the start, compared with the other Wildskeeper Reives, the reward level and content level is relatively low. As we continue to add more high level items including Bayld equipment, the value of these rewards has dropped greatly, so we will be adjusting the content level of these Wildskeeper Reives up to 16 to match that of Yorcia Weald and Marjami Ravine. To go along with this, we will add new rewards as well.

[Fwahm]

We took a RDM to every Delve run, and we found it very beneficial. The caveat is they actually have to be a good RDM. Granted, that's only a place for one single RDM, but nothing you're saying is offering any more than that. If you're of the opinion that RDM is useless in it's current state, it's probably because everyone you've seen play it wants to sit back and not do anything.

I go as RDM to delve all the time, but from what I can see, everything RDM can do there, an extra SCH could do better.

Heal? SCH have better MP efficiency and can stona without having to sub WHM.

Enfeeble? As long as the SCH in question is subbing RDM (and thus is separate from your stunners), they can blind Peiste, silence Tojil, dispel Tojil and Kurma, sleep NMs you aren't killing yet, and dia everything (with two light shots) just as a RDM can, and due to being able to equip Atinian staff, can likely do it better. They can't slow or paralyze as well as a RDM, but it's pretty hard to notice when Tojil isn't effected by slow, and RDM has big problems landing Paralyze on him (even with Buramenk'ah and a GEO) due to him being fire based. SCH can also land Impact fully on resistant NMs reliably as well, unlike RDM. The other delves are similar, besides RDM's chainspell being minorly useful against Scorpion if your SCHs don't have low enough stun recast.

Nuke? SCH can do that better, too.

Until they make mobs that have enough evasion to make Gravity II worthwhile, or have Addle make the difference between resisting enfeebles or not, or add more unique enfeebles to RDM, or make Temper castable on others, or something, I can't see SCH's superiority as a mixed mage changing very much.

[dasva]

Speaking of Gravity II, where does evasion -40 come from? I'm looking for any sort of testing on that (says -25 here and -10 for Gravity I)

I'd guess enhanced saboteur against nms. Or just jp wiki is wrong. not hard to test really

[dasva]

Until they make mobs that have enough evasion to make Gravity II worthwhile,

I don't even see why people would bring rdm specifically for -40 evasion when you can get a bst to give -25%. And yes it's landable on delve nms even before the ilvl update

[Kidnoftle]

Because we already bring a rdm typically and we don't bring bsts? Not like it matters anymore but that's a pretty simple answer lol.

edit: Also wat, who cares about eva in delve unless you're a sam?