Dev Tracker: Discussion

[dasva]

Does the alpha thing change have the same effect on all jobs/ws?

It's interaction is kinda complicated. It will effect the percent added from wsc of each the same... but since those are added together with other things to add to base dmg the percent gain on ws will differ based on a few things. Mostly how big the stat mod was to begin... bigger meaning this will have a greater effect than lower stat mod and weapon base dmg with the lower weapon base dmg would mean the alpha change would have a bigger effect than on higher base dmg weapons.

So indirectly this is change will overall boost 1hd ws more than 2 hand and ranged and will boost merit ws more than others but most the non merit ones are getting stat mod increases too. And magical it will depend on the specific formula

[Sechs]

I am confroosed...

"As these adjustments will be boosting the attack capabilities of attacker jobs, we’ll also be adding spells and ninjutsu that will boost enmity for paladin, rune fencer, and ninja. Be sure to check out the party dynamics after the version update!

Paladin Addition of a magic spell with an enmity gain-facilitating effect

Ninja Addition of a ninjutsu with a enmity gain-suppressing effect. Addition of a ninjutsu with a reduced enmity effect"

How I read the Ninja specific part is a reduction/suppression type magic which is the opposite of boosting emnity. Am I takin crazy pills here?

It's what I reported before.
I suspect it's a translation error.
It's probably going to be a single ninjutsu spell with different effects according to Yonin/Innin being active (but they kinda need to make these undispellable too or we're back to square one) or maybe 2 separate spells, one for enmity suppression and one for enmity gain?

But in the end these spells will prove semiuseless (at least for PLD and RUN) if all they do is increse the speed/efficiency at which these jobs gain enmity.
If it's something more unique like Byrth said, like increasing the enmity cap while active... then it's gonna be fucking awesome of course.
Because DDs would be left at the old cap and these jobs would be able to surpass it, making tank MUCH easier and MUCH more effective in a plethora of different situations.

I'm leaning to say it would be almost too good to be true.

[JSHidaka]

speed in enmity gain, yea that's useless..... so after this update everything will be "worst" tanking wise.. coz DD's will gain TP faster and WS will do more damage... yay!

[Shenrien]

speed in enmity gain, yea that's useless..... so after this update everything will be "worst" tanking wise.. coz DD's will gain TP faster and WS will do more damage... yay!

Is this you? Can't see anything around you only shit in front of you.

[dasva]

It doesn't really matter anyway dealing any kind of dmg caps enmity fast anyways that includes lolpldmelee dmg. All this will do is make it slightly faster. The problem is the fact that the system is designed to let you cap on some mobs several hundred times. And that stems from their mistake to make the correction factor based on mob level instead of mob hp

[JSHidaka]

Is this you? Can't see anything around you only shit in front of you.

Welcome to the internet, have any problem with that? suck it up, enjoy!

[Ophannus]

Elemental ws should deal roughly similar damage as the nearest level equivalent nuke. I see no problem with Red Lotus blade being comparable to a Fire V. These weapon skills are suppose to be acceptable forms of magic damage otherwise whats their purpose. Basically the way i envision it, the elemental weapon skills, when properly geared should rival a blm nuke's damage so melees can be worth more in fights or forms where nukes are needed. If a blm can do a 3k shattersoul, i dont see why a drg cant 3k raiden thrust(vs 5-6k drakes or stardiver) on a mob that has high ass evasion and needs thunder damage to break an aura or form. At ilvl119 with decent ws gear Raiden Thrust, Freezebite, Red Lotus, etc should do as much as a tier 5 nuke(not counting mdmg gear) for like 2.5-3k. It would be a good start for givjng those jobs non physical damage to contribute say against mobs with scaling damage like cracklaw or mastop etc(jobs without formless or magic dmg already)

[Hashmalum]

The NIN enmity reducing thing is in fact a translation error, the JP post lists both enmity + and enmity - ninjutsus added.

[Kyte]

Elemental ws should deal roughly similar damage as the nearest level equivalent nuke. I see no problem with Red Lotus blade being comparable to a Fire V. These weapon skills are suppose to be acceptable forms of magic damage otherwise whats their purpose. Basically the way i envision it, the elemental weapon skills, when properly geared should rival a blm nuke's damage so melees can be worth more in fights or forms where nukes are needed. If a blm can do a 3k shattersoul, i dont see why a drg cant 3k raiden thrust(vs 5-6k drakes or stardiver) on a mob that has high ass evasion and needs thunder damage to break an aura or form. At ilvl119 with decent ws gear Raiden Thrust, Freezebite, Red Lotus, etc should do as much as a tier 5 nuke(not counting mdmg gear) for like 2.5-3k. It would be a good start for givjng those jobs non physical damage to contribute say against mobs with scaling damage like cracklaw or mastop etc(jobs without formless or magic dmg already)

Because obviously there's a surplus of desirability for nuking in this game.

[Trumpy]

Ok thank you Hashmalum, yea the first line was from way at the top of their post, then way down they mentioned job specifics (repeating PLDs stuff) So i figured they would put all nins stuff down there too. I am just worried they will do soemthing like a 5 min recast 30 second duration and I dont think something like that would help at all. it needs to be something that can be full timed I would say.

[Prothescar]

totally fair to have a relatively cost-free ability deal the same damage as one of the most expensive spells available to blm. absolutely nothing wrong with that at all, no flaws.

[Hitou]

Elemental ws should deal roughly similar damage as the nearest level equivalent nuke. I see no problem with Red Lotus blade being comparable to a Fire V. These weapon skills are suppose to be acceptable forms of magic damage otherwise whats their purpose. Basically the way i envision it, the elemental weapon skills, when properly geared should rival a blm nuke's damage so melees can be worth more in fights or forms where nukes are needed. If a blm can do a 3k shattersoul, i dont see why a drg cant 3k raiden thrust(vs 5-6k drakes or stardiver) on a mob that has high ass evasion and needs thunder damage to break an aura or form. At ilvl119 with decent ws gear Raiden Thrust, Freezebite, Red Lotus, etc should do as much as a tier 5 nuke(not counting mdmg gear) for like 2.5-3k. It would be a good start for givjng those jobs non physical damage to contribute say against mobs with scaling damage like cracklaw or mastop etc(jobs without formless or magic dmg already)

I'm not even sure what brought this up. They are increasing damage of elemental ws. I doubt it will be as high as T5 nukes but that would be pretty insane, especially if it was without gearing for it (MAB etc.) This just sounds like more whining about MNK and formless strikes. I don't see why a melee should be able to spam T5 damage nukes via WS forever when a blm or sch etc would run out of MP very quickly casting that many T5 nukes.

[Byrthnoth]

Well, two things about magic WSs:

1) "In the case of Magical-type Weapon Skills, enmity is generated corresponding to the damage dealt by the weaponskill would do without the dSTAT or multipliers like Magic Attack Bonus, Day/Weather Bonus, Staff Bonus, or Magic Affinity." - So when I use Vidohunir for 6000 damage, I gain the enmity of <1000 damage because I have +300 MAB (4x multiplier) and a large portion of its damage is from the dSTAT term. Also, in terms of raw damage against many enemies, Vidohunir is going to exceed Tier 5 nukes after the patch.

2) It's magic damage and they've hinted they're nerfing Formless in some way. It stands to reason that we might want to use magic WSs in the future.

[Treize Kordero]

I agree that would put nukes at an disadvantage. Elemental WSes should do considerable damage but not more than T5 nukes... I'm thinking it'ls best if they hover around T3 nuke damage at most. It would be nice in the future if SE could allow elemental WSes to boost magic damage of the same elemental temporarily.

Promote team work between melees and mages...

[Prothescar]

skillchains do that already

[dasva]

Well, two things about magic WSs:

1) "In the case of Magical-type Weapon Skills, enmity is generated corresponding to the damage dealt by the weaponskill would do without the dSTAT or multipliers like Magic Attack Bonus, Day/Weather Bonus, Staff Bonus, or Magic Affinity." - So when I use Vidohunir for 6000 damage, I gain the enmity of <1000 damage because I have +300 MAB (4x multiplier) and a large portion of its damage is from the dSTAT term. Also, in terms of raw damage against many enemies, Vidohunir is going to exceed Tier 5 nukes after the patch.

I wonder if mdmg is counted. We tested most everything else but that didn't exist back then. Also would add that now comparatively a much smaller portion of the dmg is from the dstat term (except on the ones that used the old generic fint or the ones that had no stat comparison) due to magic dmg, ilvl counting now and probably most importantly insanely high mob stats lowering dstat by a lot compared to days of yesteryear

And yeah this update will really upset the balance between magical ws... well the whole mdmg stat and the insane amounts of mab available for mages onry kinda already did that since the ws were based around smaller advantages in those regards to non mages but now that they will actually be good again plus how they adjusted say vidohunir but not say wildfire which I find odd since I believe all the physical empyrean ws did and they are in part trying to bring magical ws in general up to snuff

[Fwahm]

I wonder if mdmg is counted. We tested most everything else but that didn't exist back then. Also would add that now comparatively a much smaller portion of the dmg is from the dstat term (except on the ones that used the old generic fint or the ones that had no stat comparison) due to magic dmg, ilvl counting now and probably most importantly insanely high mob stats lowering dstat by a lot compared to days of yesteryear

And yeah this update will really upset the balance between magical ws... well the whole mdmg stat and the insane amounts of mab available for mages onry kinda already did that since the ws were based around smaller advantages in those regards to non mages but now that they will actually be good again plus how they adjusted say vidohunir but not say wildfire which I find odd since I believe all the physical empyrean ws did and they are in part trying to bring magical ws in general up to snuff

Where exactly does the Magic Damage stat go in magical weaponskills? I'm wondering if I might have to have to pick up an Anahera Scythe...

[Byrthnoth]

Where exactly does the Magic Damage stat go in magical weaponskills? I'm wondering if I might have to have to pick up an Anahera Scythe...

Magic damage is added on in the same stage as dSTAT. So the equation is:

Base damage = (Level + 2 + (Modifier term))* fTP + Magic Damage + dSTAT term

Only the stuff inside fTP counted for Enmity before. I doubt Magic Damage counts, but it hasn't been tested.

[Damane]

totally fair to have a relatively cost-free ability deal the same damage as one of the most expensive spells available to blm. absolutely nothing wrong with that at all, no flaws.

the adjustments on melees TP gain and WS has me worried, us nukers just started to catch up slowly to melees and then they bomb us back again. . .

[Shenrien]

the adjustments on melees TP gain and WS has me worried, us nukers just started to catch up slowly to melees and then they bomb us back again. . .

Looks like...Black Mages...got nuked..YYYYYEEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHH