Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Prothescar]

What does job exclusivity have to do with the fact that some servers haven't got an endgame LS scene? Remove silver spoon from mouth, proceed to realize that not everyone is in the same position as you and that this is a game marketed toward more people than just yourself. I play the game with friends and have managed to do everything I've wanted and then some, why should people be forced to create ragtag linkshells of 18-36 people just because you "think" it's better? What's wrong with keeping a group of 6-10 friends and doing things with them instead and leaving alliance content as a separate option if you can easily muster that amount of people?

[Draylo]

The guy was complaining he would have to shout for hours or wait for shouts simply because he wasn't a popular job or had the right weapon. It's been like that forever, to which you and someone else said no it wasn't. You must be joking if you are saying it wasn't like that when everyone would clamor for a BRD or WHM for crap instead of meat head DD #50. As far as the rest of your post, you take things way too personal. You sound like you are jealous or something.

Edit: Since you love to edit your posts, I had said nothing about alliance content so far. I don't have to debate its worth to someone like you or anyone on this forum. I couldn't care less if you enjoy playing with 6-10 friends, whats wrong with keeping a group of 18 players and doing things with them instead of having to low man everything as the only option? I was only talking about his shouting for hours thing.

[Prothescar]

jealous of what, exactly? someone whose name is pretty much ubiquitous with rabid fanboyism and used in jokes across multiple mediums? Not really, especially since I already do everything without needing an LS of 18 people to carry me through it. Your ideals and wanting lowman content to be expunged entirely instead of the more intelligent route of having a sliding scale of alliance population:difficulty:rewards is remarkably stupid, and I can't help but note it every time you argue about it. There's a major difference between shouting for once-a-day money BCs at 75 and shouting for hours to fill up slots for an alliance endgame event, at least right now we have the option to cut the required amount of people down to 6, and it should stay that way.

[Draylo]

jealous of what, exactly? someone whose name is pretty much ubiquitous with rabid fanboyism and used in jokes across multiple mediums? Not really, especially since I already do everything without needing an LS of 18 people to carry me through it. Your ideals and wanting lowman content to be expunged entirely instead of the more intelligent route of having a sliding scale of alliance population:difficulty:rewards is remarkably stupid, and I can't help but note it every time you argue about it.

Ah more personal attacks lol. First, I didn't bring up the debate about alliance content, you are trying to turn it into that. I was referencing him talking about shouting for hours due to not having the right weapon or job. Second, I never once said I wanted low man content to cease, ever. I always said I didn't mind sliding scale so clearly you aren't reading shit every time you note it.

[Prothescar]

Oh ok, so your incessant whinging about 6man content being too easy and how they need to bring "serious 18 man content" was all just a fabrication of my mind. Got it. Anyway, I'm not going to pollute the dev thread any further with this drivel, so enjoy taking the last word.

p.s., you should re-read the post you're using as ammo, because its core premise isn't solely about shouting for hours to fill a party, it's about the difficulty in finding an LS to alleviate that issue.

[Draylo]

Me getting the last word? You are the one who keeps constantly editing his posts lol.

There's a major difference between shouting for once-a-day money BCs at 75 and shouting for hours to fill up slots for an alliance endgame event, at least right now we have the option to cut the required amount of people down to 6, and it should stay that way.

He was talking about content that is out right now, "as it is now" was what he said. I never brought up alliance content, and if it was on discussion I wouldn't mind if the rewards scaled to please everyone. "Incessant whining" about 6 man content? No, I don't even bring that up except to point out that its the only option of gameplay right now. Try taking your anger out some other way than to argue with someone over the internet, its clearly getting to you with all the personal attacks.

p.s., you should re-read the post you're using as ammo, because its core premise isn't solely about shouting for hours to fill a party, it's about the difficulty in finding an LS to alleviate that issue.

I honestly don't care, you are the one who decided to turn it into a debate. I commented on the part that I wanted to.

[Karbuncle]

You are the one who keeps constantly editing his posts lol.

This is pretty common though. I do it all the time, either to reduce the sounds of rage or to explain something a bit better... or I went back and read something and picked up on something I didnt the first time, also afterthoughts. I imagine he's doing the same.

[Draylo]

This is pretty common though. I do it all the time, either to reduce the sounds of rage or to explain something a bit better... or I went back and read something and picked up on something I didnt the first time, also afterthoughts. I imagine he's doing the same.

Yeah but most people put "Edit:" so we can see what was said after the response. Otherwise its there to make me miss a response to something so my comment doesn't reflect it.

[Sechs]

The guy was complaining he would have to shout for hours or wait for shouts simply because he wasn't a popular job or had the right weapon. It's been like that forever,

Exactely, this was the point. Think someone missed it.
And yes, it's exactely like what you said.
TO DIFFERENT EXTENTS of course (like the "worst" situation was during VW maybe, where RME were so common that you were DEMANDED to have one even to do incredibly easy content. It was preposterous).

Whining about not having the "cool job" might have made sense 8+ years ago where it could take you quite a long time to level up a new job, but today?!
Someone could argue "But I don't like playing job X!".
Fair point.
But there are so many different jobs in this game I have a hard time to believe you wouldn't like at least ONE of the "wanted" jobs.

What's wrong with keeping a group of 6-10 friends and doing things with them instead and leaving alliance content as a separate option if you can easily muster that amount of people?

Agreed.
But what you're missing, at least in this post, is what other developers learned very fast from experience.
Organizing stuff that requires more people is more annoying, harder to do, stressing, less likely to happen.
You, as a dev, need to offer incentives to players for doing so, or exclusive content accessible only for such groups.
The current situation in FFXI? The other way around.
There is no exclusive content.
There is no incentive. It's actually the other way around.
Lowmen stuff it's often easier* and rewards more stuff.
It's so ridiculous it's funny :D




*to a certain extent it's always been this way... thanks to the "TPfeed" problem and others core mechanics of FFXI. But it never reached the current levels and even in those few situations the lowmen groups were required to be incredibly leet.

[Ophannus]

Speaking of ENM and ISNM when are they gonna uncap those? I need shit from them.

What's wrong with keeping a group of 6-10 friends and doing things with them instead and leaving alliance content as a separate option if you can easily muster that amount of people?

This. I like how they've given us the option to low man 'alliance content'. The only thing is, they kind of made the 6man versions arguably a lot easier, it seems, with the scaling of HP and shit. For example, in 18man Yorcia you can drop 5-7k nukes for days and even chainspell twenty 3k Aero II's and it'll never drop Wopkets fucking aura, but in 6man, one or two solid Aero IV/V will strip it.

[Shenrien]

They said that they were not going to lift the cap on them so they remained somewhat difficult, and they're not hard at all to go in and duo if you're after evoker.

[Draylo]

Yeah I went half assed as DRK + WHM to the antlion one for evokers, used to solo that one back in the day.

[Seha]

Um, it's true that it was much easier to get in linkshells years ago. Let alone the fact that there were actually tons more ls recruiting(only a handful now), requirements were not as bad. Since getting relic weapons/gear and other endgame stuff was a group chore you weren't expected to have it already, just needed some basic things, make a couple of trial runs to show you weren't an idiot and you could be in.

Things took a drastic turn during VW era because at that time it was easy to obtain endgame gear, and if it's easy people expect you to do it by yourself and show up already with a empy or relic and wearing decent stuff. Now it's not so restrictive as then, but people still consider it easy to obtain powerful weapons and only take in those who have them. A good thing now though is that everything is shout friendly..pre-aby only things I remember being shouted were Nyzul climbs and only by jp salvage runs..now everything is done with shouts and it's fairly good cause it means one way or another you can get things done.

A lot of people experienced dyna/ein/sea/sky/limbus back at 75(with varying degrees of success..); very few experienced Legion instead because not only it wasn't shout friendly but getting in a ls for it was very restrictive.

[Tarage]

On the SMN front, we got another post from Camate about Hastega II and the like.

Greetings,

While I gave the example of Hastega II, we’ll be introducing new offensive Blood Pacts as well for avatars, so rest assured that we will not be making adjustments to summoner only as a support-type job.

As there are a lot of avatars, it will be a bit difficult to add new Blood Pacts for each of them all at once, but we’ll be looking into adding them individually as we move forward.

I'm curious about the timetable for some of these.

[geno3302]

New offensive BPs. I came in my pants, now I have to rush to change before work

[pancakesandsex]

I'm a member of an LS on Sylph that can usually field 18 people. It's frustrating that the only real alliance content at the moment are Legion (which is largely obsolete) DM (which people are going to cap out on sooner than later), and delve. I would like to have a few more options, even if they scale like delve does, if only so that we have more choices for stuff to do when we have more than 6 people around eager to do stuff.

[FNH]

I would like them to add more alliance content. Low man only content negatively effects larger Linkshells in that it usually dissolves LS into cliques and some people get the shaft on that. And sure those people left out of the cliques could form their own group, but if those people have a casual schedule that fit well with alliance content (where you could fit in to whatever event you happened to log in to) you wouldn't be wanted for lowman groups, theyd just replace you.

[arus2001]

Side A: "It's hard to do stuff, there's not enough people and others isolate themselves..."
Side B: "WE NEED MORE ALLIANCE CONTENT!"

...point missed, apparently.

[geno3302]

Back from work and back to the important topic of new offensive BPs!

I for one am hoping for some new physical and hybrid BPs. Flaming Crush is awesome and it would be nice to see a hybrid BP that falls under the darkness SC elements, personally I'm a fan of Ifrit and Shiva so I'd pick her/ice for the dark side.

I'd like to see Leviathan get a multi-hit BP and even more so I'd like to see Titan get a new ranged BP that doesn't miss 95% of the time. I always thought it sucked that he was the only avatar with a ranged attacks and they missed so much ; ; (maybe it's just me?)

If Ifrit gets a decent physical BP then he'd be a very nice all around avatar. His BP wards aren't worthless, he has a situational high damage hybrid attack, and deals good magical damage with merit BP.

It would also be nice to see the terrestrial avatars get damaging BP that make them useable for damage again.
Diabolos is the only avatar that can deal damage with his BP ward, so it'd be cool if they gave him a slight upgrade that way. We also never got access to Cacodemonia though I doubt they'd make the curse potent enough to actually be worthwhile, would be awesome if it was zombie and could stop benediction.

Whatever they do I hope they're at least useable, would be nice to say "I think I'll use this BP with Garuda" instead of PC > PC > PC or WB > WB > WB

[Karbuncle]

I'd like to see Leviathan get a multi-hit BP and even more so I'd like to see Titan get a new ranged BP that doesn't miss 95% of the time. I always thought it sucked that he was the only avatar with a ranged attacks and they missed so much ; ; (maybe it's just me?)

Agreed on both. Leviathan Multi-hit would be neat, but, I mean, a more powerful 1 hit I wouldn't shun. Also, Missing ranged WS is the curse of ranged attacks in general >_>

If Ifrit gets a decent physical BP then he'd be a very nice all around avatar. His BP wards aren't worthless, he has a situational high damage hybrid attack, and deals good magical damage with merit BP.

Flaming crush is already really nice.. I know its "hybrid", but, its still mainly physical no? either way, giving ifrit a new "Burning Strike" type 1-hit attack would be awesome.

Whatever they do I hope they're at least useable, would be nice to say "I think I'll use this BP with Garuda" instead of PC > PC > PC or WB > WB > WB

Its funny, I haven't summoned Garuda in years except for Hastega or Quickening lol.

Theres a lot they can do for Bloodpacts, hopefully they consider carefully how OP weaponskills are and make these new BPs as powerful in comparison to new WS outputs, and maybe give them skillchain properties...