Dev Tracker: Discussion

[dasva]

Flaming crush is already really nice.. I know its "hybrid", but, its still mainly physical no? either way, giving ifrit a new "Burning Strike" type 1-hit attack would be awesome.

Not sure what you mean by mainly. Is there slightly more ftp for the physical side? Yes. But on the other hand the magical part benefits from MAB which hugely skews things to make most of the dmg magical

[geno3302]

Yeah I don't know the split on Flaming Crush but the physical portion must be quite weak in comparison or other BPs and to the magical portion of the damage.
Yeah I never liked garuda but if accuracy isn't an issue then Predator Claws is still the strongest physical BP.

I for one would really like to see the concept they took with magic. Lower tier spells do less damage but are significantly more MP efficient. I know we don't worry about MP really, but a boost to the weaker BPs would be cool at least. It's also long past time for BP to create level 3 SCs...

We also need some way to generate TP without meleeing. Maybe something like: Converts 2~3% of BP damage to TP. 33k DMG = 1000 TP, it lets us be more self sufficient with Myrkr or helps keep aftermaths up. It's a little broken with Flaming Crush on some weaker stuff, but not as broken as Flaming Crush itself. Though I'd say BLM casting spells for free on low level content is even more broken.

Really I'd like to see the eventual split of Rage and Ward into 4 categories: Physical, Magical, Buff, Debuff. I wont hold my breath though >_>

[Prothescar]

tbh it's still a miracle that they split BPs into rage and ward at all. interested to see how they take the job, sufficient power behind the new BPs could be pretty nice in combination with Hatesga II, Inferno Howl, Crimson Howl, and Ifrit's Favor.

[geno3302]

tbh it's still a miracle that they split BPs into rage and ward at all. interested to see how they take the job, sufficient power behind the new BPs could be pretty nice in combination with Hatesga II, Inferno Howl, Crimson Howl, and Ifrit's Favor.

Ramuh's Favor is also quite strong, Crit Rate +21-23% if I remember correctly. Also when the moon phase is correct Heavenward Howl's Endrain is very powerful and it is counted as extra damage.

Hopefully they do what they said and fix Avatar's Favor and add some stance that increases MP cost to increase damage.

[Karbuncle]

Not sure what you mean by mainly. Is there slightly more ftp for the physical side? Yes. But on the other hand the magical part benefits from MAB which hugely skews things to make most of the dmg magical

Well, there was a question mark in that sentence which means it was more a question than a statement, so I wasn't "meaning" anything by it really, more so questioning my memory of how the I thought the BP works/is calculated =x. Apologies.

They're looking into buffing all BP:Wards which is nice too.

[Draylo]

Don't really care at all about Atomos, more interested in the new physical BP's. Hopefully Diabolos gets one too, he doesn't have one aside from Camisado.

[Sechs]

I'd like to see Titan get a new ranged BP that doesn't miss 95% of the time.

But is that BP really ranged?
I mean aside from looking like one and the range etc, is it really affected by stuff like racc and ratt? Because I always assumed it was just a normal physical attack despite looking like a ranged one.

If Ifrit gets a decent physical BP then he'd be a very nice all around avatar. His BP wards aren't worthless, he has a situational high damage hybrid attack, and deals good magical damage with merit BP.

And don't forget Favor. When/if they'll revamp Favour and we'll be able to use it without resetting the stacking bonus with every action performed, it will become a nice Avatar to use in a melee pt.
I have only 1/5 in meteor strike... kinda wish I could spend 15 upgrades in group #2 instead of 10. Wonder if that day will ever come...

We also need some way to generate TP without meleeing.

You need MORE ways? Because Caller's neck exists, we have Mana Cede and Avatars get TP when they get damage (don't they?)
Atm only a minority of BPs are affected by TP though, so unless they change that I'm not sure it would be so vital to have multiple ways of getting TP.
(lower recast on Mana Cede would be welcome though! Always felt the ability was kinda lackluster)

Really I'd like to see the eventual split of Rage and Ward into 4 categories: Physical, Magical, Buff, Debuff. I wont hold my breath though >_>

Meeeeeh that seems exagerated. We're already at 37 seconds BP recast. If they ever bring it down to 30 (I'm confident that could possibly happen) things will be very awesome already.
No need for a further category split imho.

[Malithar]

Don't really care at all about Atomos

Pretty interested in him myself. Really depends on what they do with him, but a massive -all stats debuff and massive +all stats buff for 3ish min could buff zergs a lot if PD isn't needed, specially if it's alliance content.

[Karbuncle]

Pretty interested in him myself. Really depends on what they do with him, but a massive -all stats debuff and massive +all stats buff for 3ish min could buff zergs a lot if PD isn't needed, specially if it's alliance content.

Well, in the BCNM, he reduces your stats to 3... if he does even -50% Stats on enemy and bestows them on us, it'll be pretty nice. I'm still kinda hoping they give us something different because that seems hugely situational, but still.

[Sechs]

Well, in the BCNM, he reduces your stats to 3... if he does even -50% Stats on enemy and bestows them on us, it'll be pretty nice. I'm still kinda hoping they give us something different because that seems hugely situational, but still.

In before it works like that but has a high chance to miss and never works on anything where it would be useful for it to work!

If we were talking about how FFXI used to be up to some time ago I would bet all my gil on this scenario.
Given the different direction Matsui's team has tried to lead the game to, I don't really expect something as lame as that, honestly.

[Tarage]

In before it works like that but has a high chance to miss and never works on anything where it would be useful for it to work!

If we were talking about how FFXI used to be up to some time ago I would bet all my gil on this scenario.
Given the different direction Matsui's team has tried to lead the game to, I don't really expect something as lame as that, honestly.

Cait Sith grumble grumble.

[Sechs]

But but but! Caith Sith project was started by someone else!11!one!
I know how disappointed you are in Caith Sith since you never miss a chance to voice it.

I'm not saying we should all be happy, but the avatar is still incomplete, there's hope for the future and atm it's a pretty "unique" Avatar that stands out from the others.
I don't know what you were expecting but I M H O if you were expecting for a supermega avatar with insane over9000 damage everywhere so you would fulltime that and forget about the others then I think it was a wrong expectation.
All avatars should be useful, to a certain degree.
It's pretty clear that Caith Sith needs some work, but I like the "direction" they've taken with it, I cannot call it extraordinary but I do not support the complete disappointment/anger some people have against it.

Now if you were saying that for SUCH A LONG TIME to be given an INCOMPLETE Avatar... well, in these terms I can understand, but realistically I don't think they really worked that much on it, they just had other priorities and Caith Sith has been perma-pushed back to the bottom of the queue for who knows how long...

[geno3302]

But is that BP really ranged?
I mean aside from looking like one and the range etc, is it really affected by stuff like racc and ratt? Because I always assumed it was just a normal physical attack despite looking like a ranged one.

It states it in the discription for the two Rock Throw and Megalith Throw, I always assumed it was.

You need MORE ways? Because Caller's neck exists, we have Mana Cede and Avatars get TP when they get damage (don't they?)
Atm only a minority of BPs are affected by TP though, so unless they change that I'm not sure it would be so vital to have multiple ways of getting TP.
(lower recast on Mana Cede would be welcome though! Always felt the ability was kinda lackluster)

You missread my post, I want the player to gain TP from it not the avatar. I want to be able to keep up Nirvana's aftermath 2/3 without being forced to melee or use Myrkr for emergencies. Myrkr restores a lot of MP and can remove up to 3 debuffs.

Meeeeeh that seems exagerated. We're already at 37 seconds BP recast. If they ever bring it down to 30 (I'm confident that could possibly happen) things will be very awesome already.
No need for a further category split imho.

Do you honestly think a 30 second reaction time is acceptable? Oh fuck my melee are dying I'll save you with Whispering Wind (did I mention that healing BPs need to be upgraded too? Because they do)...oh wait j/k guys still 15sec on my BP Ward timer.

If we're sticking with 2 BP timers then I'd like to see the timer go down to 15-20sec. Even then, if we didn't get any increase in damage at all, we still wouldn't come close to being a semi-acceptable DD slot. As a mage class, I should always have things to do. 2 actions every 36 seconds really doesn't cut it though I understand their desire to not lower BP timers to 15-20sec that's why I think the 4 BP timers would help.

In the majority of fights on SMN the targets either take good physical or good magical damage but rarely both. This would let me fill my time. Grand Fall/Spinning Dive > Tidal Roar/Slowga > Spring Water. Doing some damage even if it sucks, tossing out some debuffs, helping heal status effects and cure a little. This is a true hybrid class that can help out. We're not the best at anything but we can actively do everything. Atm we're fairly restricted.

[Sechs]

It states it in the discription for the two Rock Throw and Megalith Throw, I always assumed it was.

Description of JAs and WS say a lot of shit so I always assumed it looked like a ranged attack but was actually affected by attack, not ranged attack.
I don't even think there's a single piece (except mini-expansion augmentable stuff?) that gives ranged attack for SMN?
Uhmmm Regimen Mitts give racc but it's a pretty recent item.
I don't know though. Nobody ever tested so far?

You missread my post

Ah kinda like Occult Acumen but for SMN!
Very cool idea but you'd need to strictly stick to non swapping Mainhand/sub.

Do you honestly think a 30 second reaction time is acceptable?

Most BP wards need to be adjusted, healing in particular.
Which is kinda what Camate Said they're gonna do, is it not?

The situation you described is frustrating, but I don't think SMN is the job who's supposed to constantly look at other pt members, you got healers for that.

we still wouldn't come close to being a semi-acceptable DD slot.

That's probably correct, but that's not what SMN is meant for.
This is not WoW or FFXIV where you have a strict 3-ways Trinity System.
The system is much more complex and you have a lot of hybrid roles.
SMN clearly is one of them.
Can do decent damage, but not as good as a real DD.
Can buff, some buffs are pretty nice and they're gonna get even better when they release the new Favor thing.
It can heal, it can copy stuff from other jobs, even if not as good as them, and it also has some pretty unique things, some of which are incredibly powerful.

Don't get me wrong, not saying SMN is fine as it is because it's totally not, but it seems your request are a bit too demanding.

Btw with 15 seconds BPs per 4 possible BPs that's like 1 BP every 3,75. If you consider the animation lag/delay of your pet that's basically almost perma-BPing. How would you find the resources to mantain that sort of MP without multiple refresh buffs?
You want multiple things to do in-between BPs? You have your subjob spells, you have releasing and resummoning other different avatars.
30 seconds cooldown split in 2 different BPs seems just right to me.

[geno3302]

I meant 15sec in place of 4 BPs, so stick with just 2 BP but change it to a 15-20sec recast (with gear of course.)

The TP thing really is for Nirvana since I know there's no reason to stick to 1 weapon w/o it.

I'm not trying to make SMN the god of all classes, but I believe what I said about splitting the timers or bringing it down to 15-20sec really is needed for the job. If you respond to a shout for random content and say you can come SMN the first idea in a persons head isn't oh cool a hybrid job, they should be able to help out with lots of stuff. It's generally "what other jobs do you have?"

SMN may be able to do lots of stuff at the moment, but it can't do enough of that stuff to be considered useful is my point.

Also to note, my ideas are based on the current state of SMN not the state it will be in if/when they change things. Could be whatever they change fixes issues but who knows.

[Sechs]

It's generally "what other jobs do you have?"

Hahaahahah xD
Sad but true.

Don't get me wrong Geno I won't complain if we get 15-20 BP timers (but given the amount of BPII we saw on gear so far that's likely not in their plans ) lol, I was just saying that it seems a bit too much of a wet-dream which is not going to happen
The Job's attractiveness is too low atm, because of people's mindset but also because of the current limits of the job itself.
We got food now, maybe even better food (macc!) will come in the future.
They're gonna give us new BPs and "fix" the existing ones (making more viable, kinda like WS rehaul?). They're especially gonna buff up Wards (like Earthen Ward! It sucks! Or Diabolos' Phalanx!) making them likely cap at higher values and last even longer with skill.
Don't forget the new Avatar's Favor too.
All of these changes sound really good. If they manage to deliver noticeable differences, SMN is going to become an incredibly versatile and efficient hybrid job. Kinda what it was always supposed to be.
Call me a blind optimist, but I have great hopes for these changes.

[Ophannus]

There should be a trait for all pet jobs that allows bonus TP to be obtained when the pet lands a physical attack. Give SMN the highest tier of it, followed by BST, then PUP and DRG last because that's the hierarchy of jobs that rely on pets. For SMN it could be something like 80% of the Avatar's TP is copied to the SMN, for DRG would be like 20% of the Wyvern's TP per hit is copied(so for DRG, looing at like 1.7-2 tp per hit added which is fair, for SMN they'd be getting 5-6 per hit avatar hit which is great considering they can also melee alongside their pet with a staff.

Have to be careful with BP timers because once they rebalance Wards, they'll probably be pretty good. A job that can Hastega II, AoE remove Debuffs, uninterruptable AoE heals on people from a safe distance, hateless damage, shouldn't be healing/buffing/dding near as good as a specialist. I don't want to see a SMN being an acceptable damage dealer in place of a SAM/WAR/MNK/DRK/DRG/RNG because SMN can also do shit that melees cant do, like hateless damage and buffs. SMN DD should be secondary, around THF COR PUP DNC NIN BLU levels, because it's a hybrid. If SMN was ever given 10-15s timers and then new offenseive BPs come out and SMNs start dropping 12-15k BPs every 10-15sec of hateless damage, guess what the new bandwagon DD job is gonna be? It'll be like the new relic RNG, except cheaper and even more hateless and safe. Not only that but avatars don't need cures or songs. Could just 6SMN everything, wouldn't even need a tank, healer, or bard. With 6 SMNs with 10-15s recast on BPs that deal that much damage? Why bring flimsy DDs which get wrecked from AoEs and require cures when you can just throw SMNs at it? Buffing SMN requires they proceed with caution, there's too many elements SMN has going for it that would make it too good if buffed too heavily.

[Seha]

New torques? Damn, and I spent hours farming stupid chests for mine!

/first world problems

[Shenrien]

You didn't waste your time, it's the torques for the crafts that don't have one.

[Seha]

Oops, read woodworking and thought all were being listed so I just skipped ahead. Attention, what's that?