Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Karbuncle]

I thought they were just saying that "Enmity+" through gear would cap higher... Could have read it wrong myself

[Byrthnoth]

If you're talking about this:

While we will not be making adjustments to Crusade, we will be increasing the cap for the amount of enmity effect that can be gained by equipment and other avenues in the next version update.

They're just saying that they'll raise the equipment Enmity cap above its current cap of +100.

[Sechs]

Ungh... completely read it wrong.
Yeah put that way it makes sense I guess. Higher cap from +enm (will the same happen for -enm too?) from gear, and bonuses like Crusade and Animus are in the gear cap category etc etc.
That gives people equipping +enmity gear a higher cap than, say, DDs. So in theory it should become possible to mantain hate in several circumstances!
Wow! Keeping my fingers crossed lol

[Malithar]

I don't understand why people want tanks to have a higher enmity cap than anyone else. Not saying I don't want tanks to be able to hold hate, but it should involve something more than just capping higher than others and riding enmity generation to stay at a cap that no one else can reach.

For the changes mentioned though, if trash mobs ever get to the point of living any meaningful amount of time and are a threat, maybe a tank securing early hate would be beneficial.

[Sechs]

I don't understand why people want tanks to have a higher enmity cap than anyone else.

Are you saying that you don't want the Enmity thing to be trivialized into a non issue where tanks never lose hate no matter what?
I understand and support such feeling. Enmity SHOULD matter, you should see the difference between a good tank or rather a good group of people working together and a group of random players where everybody is playing as he were alone.
But at the same time the current situation (where you often have to rely on niches like RNGs and Decoy Shot) is clearly not acceptable.

In many other games there is no enmity cap and tanks have several tools (Abilities, more often passive traits) that multiply the amount of enmity generated by all of their actions.
That would be kinda hard to directly translate into a world like FFXI though.

[Damane]

the enmity cap raising istn gonna benefit much tank jobs, especially RUN wont benefit at all from it, the amount of enmity + gear run gets is... really really low, even their AF and Relic have almost no enmity +. I also dont understand the reason behind the rune enmity nerf, they nullyfied any enmity gained from runes when they made them undispellable. Why?

i think SEs best option would be to tweak some /SJ choices around for melees if they dont want to raise the enmity cap. makeing Super Jump available as a SJ and lowering maybe trick attack recast from 1 min to 20 sec. I also dont want melee tanking to get destroyed by any means, its an essential part now in FFXI. its no a perfect solution, because white damage will still cap your enmity at some point as a melee, the other problem is survivability of the melees from AoE moves.

[Sechs]

the enmity cap raising istn gonna benefit much tank jobs, especially RUN wont benefit at all from it, the amount of enmity + gear run gets is... really really low

Well it kinda depends on wether or not the +30 from Crusade will count as "+enmity from gear" or not.
I'd be leaning to think that it doesn't, but let's see.

[Damane]

Well it kinda depends on wether or not the +30 from Crusade will count as "+enmity from gear" or not.
I'd be leaning to think that it doesn't, but let's see.

RUN cant reach the current enmity + cap even with crusade, the only AF piece with enmity+ on it are the futhark gauntlets and then there is like 0 ilvl gear left with enmity + on it, only accessoires/back/belt/neck slots left. you still have to factor in recast for enmity spells if valliance/vallation fastcast-trait gets dispelled. the rune enchantment nerf has hit RUNs enmity capabilitys real hard with the non available + enmity gear atm depending on the situation. and running non-ilvl enmity gear is not even an option for a tank job.

[Sechs]

RUN cant reach the current enmity + cap even with crusade

Yes, but I don't think that's the issue.
When you can spam Flash/Foil/BlankGaze/Geistwall non stop you basically stay at the top of the current cap, as long as your MP allows you to.
The issue is more than that cap is too low and DDs can reach it as well by doing damage.

The only possible issue I see with this is the dispel of Inspiration, as you mentioned.

[Damane]

Yes, but I don't think that's the issue.
When you can spam Flash/Foil/BlankGaze/Geistwall non stop you basically stay at the top of the current cap, as long as your MP allows you to.
The issue is more than that cap is too low and DDs can reach it as well by doing damage.

The only possible issue I see with this is the dispel of Inspiration, as you mentioned.

you cant spam if your Inspiration trait gets dispelled form vallation/valliance, which can happen in 1/3 of the fights. and spamming it can be very MP intensiv, there isnt much refresh gear you can sport on RUN if you are going -DT/MDT/PDT, its not like RUN is sporting some form of ochain that gives you limitless MP. IMHO the rune enmity nerf needs to be reverted.


RUN has still flaws compared to pld with, even with a run mythic. to name some:
-holding a group of mobs without engageing: parry cant kick in without engageing as oposed to shield blocks, this would be less an issue if it could, when engaged its not much of an issue as long as the NMs/mobs stand in front of you for parry to kick in.
-MP issues when left for longer duration without any form of refresh (RUNs own refresh spell wont cut it)
-enmity+ coupled with PDT/MDT/DT gear issue

neverthless a very intersting tank job, foil and battuta (especially battuta) have some very potent effects to evade/counter stuff, battuta makes you basicly invincible for 1.30 min against any form of physical attacks, slap foil on that and the chances are slim/to non existend for a NM move to hit you.

[Martel]

Tenebrae+Pulse can help mitigate MP issues a bit, but you don't always have the leeway to use dark ele runes. But in any case, if you're not soloing, there's probably a brd around.

[dasva]

Well it kinda depends on wether or not the +30 from Crusade will count as "+enmity from gear" or not.
I'd be leaning to think that it doesn't, but let's see.

It is gear not that it or raising the cap matters much... because in the end who cares how much of a multiplier to enmity gained tanks have when everyone is capping with 1 ws? Especially considering 99.9% of the players aren't reaching the cap anyways

[Xantavia]

I mean... this means we'll be first: forced to get that item, second: forced to keep it equipped, limiting gear swaps and options for that slot. It sounds pretty dumb to me.

Thief Knives. Thief Knives for everyone.

[Darkmagi]

Yeah, higher enmity modifier via equipment is pretty much worthless. It's already trivial to hit and maintain the cap.

[Prothescar]

Randomly generated dungeons and what reads like a not fucktarded augment system? This I like. 'Tis what Skirmish should have been from the beginning

[Sechs]

'Tis what Skirmish should have been from the beginning

^ this.

Well at least on paper, I don't want to get too happy before time

[Prothescar]

Interested in seeing what these weapons/augments are like though. We're getting pretty saturated with 119 stuff

[Hitou]

Don't worry the item lvl will eventually raise and it will all be worthless anyway. I kinda hope they use the new looking models that people have speculated will be Adoulin style RME. Mostly because they keep using boring weapon models for a lot of things like skirmish and delve II augmentable weapons.

[Malithar]

Interested in seeing what these weapons/augments are like though. We're getting pretty saturated with 119 stuff

Most curious about this. Every weapon type has 119s from 1+ BC, Delve (sans Katana and Gun), Skirmish +2, Plasm, and JSE sans Pld, Brd, and Geo, plus all the RMEs. Is another 119 option that relies on augments really going to be useful? I'm kind of giddy about "shields." Here's to hoping we're going to see some meaningful MDmg/MAB/MAcc shields come about, even a 119 DD shield for Bst since according to the official forums, that's still a thing. Then again, with all the mistakes in that post, maybe shields was a mistake too. ._.;

Kind of figured we'd be going back to the other skirmish zones at some point. Would just be weird to have such a system separated into 3 tiers with the lower tiers being extremely pricey to run due to their reliance on legs and bodies. I wonder if this means Inner Ra'kaznar will be useless other than niche CP farming. :/

[ccl]

So the news on skirmish only mention wpn ? It better be awesome wpn to compete with current top tier wpn for each job and grindy enough to not be cleared day one, but I fear that if it's weapon only, the event is already dead for people with relic/mythic for their job