Dev Tracker: Discussion

[ccl]

I do not use any of those; I like playing button I'm only guilty for windower macro and statustimer for AM3 but since sam has meditate can use that for AM3 timer. Next update the average joe will have game made windower macro.

[arus2001]

At the very least, gear swapping will be better for non-PC folk soon. x.x

[scaevola]

So because there are group we 2song brd still, there cannot be event that assume 4song brd and you don't see any flaw in your logic ?

The 3-song bard doesn't need to mess around with a bad group.

Anyway, I'm not saying there shouldn't be an event that assumes a 4-song bard. I am pro-difficulty level.

[Draylo]

Don't understand ppl obsession with 3~4 song bards? Do I need to take a video of a crew of 6 ppl in all eminent gear with a 2 song bard beating Tojil?

[ccl]

We should just quit, clearly we're only 1% of player with good gear in a 12 years old game and everyone else has bad gear/sucks.

[scaevola]

It's not about 3-4 song bards. It's about bards, period, or more broadly, the degree to which buffing jobs in FFXI are totally broken.

I would be interested in a video of a 6-man Tojil with no buffing jobs.

[Warusha]

It is unfortunate how dependent on proper support the battle system is for XI.

[ccl]

It's not about 3-4 song bards. It's about bards, period, or more broadly, the degree to which buffing jobs in FFXI are totally broken.

I would be interested in a video of a 6-man Tojil with no buffing jobs.

I can do tojil win without brd.

[scaevola]

Well, as mentioned earlier, since 11 isn't designed in a way that could actually test everyone's reflexes and ability to react, it has to settle for testing your preparation. The result is that people think content is trivial because the game allows them to set their groups up in ways that trivialize it, independent of gear/linear progression.

(see also: building your SCH entirely around stunning every Lahar)

[scaevola]

I can do tojil win without brd.

(mythic owner)

[ronin sparthos]

With all the bad things those event had, VW and Legion were the perfect balance difficulty wise. This was for me one of the best Era of FFXI.

The age of spam invincibility drinks and throw DD into a mob with BRD/COR buffs for junk galore and the not-quite-legit revival of 'elite' 18man content only a handful of people bothered to do because it involved stun gunning everything was the best era of FFXI? For you, perhaps.

TOAU in its stride and mid-Abyssea were probably the high points of XI. TOAU was a full fledged expansion that improved upon the dynamics established with regards to EXP and events while installing a proper series of endgame content in things like Ein, Nyzul, Assaults, ZNMs and meripo. That miserably slow EXP, those times getting sniped by Guivre in Kuftal when you went to take a piss, those early Nyzul parties where everyone didn't get the disc progress, dying to a dozen imps because your party was bad, helping your LS bromates unlock that 'worthless' WSNM, farming sky trigs on your allotted day while fighting off RMT and getting that sweet coffer key justice while getting some skillup points were all part of the XI charm that made this game unique.

After miserable years of Wings of the Goddess, we were treated to Abyssea where we got new JAs, new weaponskills, a dev team that wasn't lobotomized and for a brief moment a rekindled spark that made this game a unique niche. At least this was until Heroes went overboard and we got stuck with Voidwatches to cover the fact SE didn't plan a future for this game and brewmania which destroyed any vestiges of Abyssea being able to keep people busy.

[Sechs]

Casuals are bored because, fairly or not, they find themselves locked out of content by a community that would rather sit in Adoulin complaining about being bored than go do a VE/E AA or Tojil (or even a non-boss Delve run!) with whatever's lying around.

One time, I tried to put together a PuG for a to-be-determined VE AA (bring your PUP; who gives a shit?) and oh man, the hate-tells.

Ow...
Ow ow ow ow ow.

This saddens me a lot.
Sometimes players like those who post here (myself included) kinda lose track of the "world outside".
A world full of players who don't have RME, sometimes (but not always) have no clue what they're doing with the game, they're equipped at best with 109 gear with some eminent and WKR drops and despite all that, still enjoy the game and have fun.
It's sad to see situations like the one you described happen.
But then again, what is your solution? I don't see any honestly.

It would have been less of an issue if this system was based on personal Pop Items (like personal Orbs). You provide your orb, you decide you want to do VE or E, whatever, it's your orb, I might help you regardless.
But here we have to buy KIs with our own merits, and EVERYBODY willing to participate, even just for help, needs to bring his own KI.
And honestly I can understand people not wanting to "waste" 10-20 merits for a VE/E fight. I know for sure I wouldn't.
So really, while I hate this happening, I don't really see a possible solution to solve it.

[Malithar]

You're assuming a VE/E shout is trawling for the kind of people who have the kind of regular access to N+ groups that would incentivize holding on to their merits.

I dunno, the kind of people I've personally seen that should be doing VE/E are the kinds that complain when they find their way into a group that they're only doing D and not VD. I could see your average Joe Smoe who plays a few hours on the weekend being down for this, but that's where finding like minded people comes in. As you mentioned, make a LS for em, etc.

I mean, one 6-10 page might be peanuts to you but would you really say it's not worth 10 merits if you legitimately do not have anything better to spend them on?

I'd personally work on finding a way to get into more N or D runs, whether that's gearing up and learning a new job, or just find more/better friends. But like the Joe mentioned above, I could see value in it for him. Most people (rightfully so) have a hard on for maximizing what they get out of something. The downside to this though is you get a great deal of people that have absolutely no fucking idea what they're doing. And unfortunately, many of these very same people, but not all, have the mind set of "it's my $13, I'll play how I want" "i know wut im doin lolol" etc. These are the 3 song Brds who don't/won't resing in Eminent Flute because "lolol thats not how itz done."

This, this is exactly what I was saying. They do not do BCs because this community has convinced them that the BCs are not for them, even at VE/E levels, and they are afraid to try (see: hate-tells).

I'd happily have along decent quality players that are at least decently geared (I'm not even picky on weapons, Eminents are fairly strong for their endgame entry status) who are capable of listening, playing decently, and breathing on their own. Unfortunately, that's honestly a rarity anymore. Hence why you see most on this board stick to who they know for runs, and the result is anything and everything is too easy.

And really, "afraid to try?" I'm not big on that really, there's nothing to be afraid about. Reminds me too much of the shouters who insist on snatching up a 4 song Brd, 3x Mnk/Runs, Whm, Sch for Tojil. No need to go so hard on stuff anymore, hasn't been for a long time.

[ronin sparthos]

most people seem to forget that prolly 75% of the playerbase isnt useing windower, gearswap spellcast, cupper, gm mode etc. theese are all stuff that affect your performance tremendously. If you really wanted to experience how a D or VD fight feels for the average ffxi player (just see the giant gap) proceed to a VD D or Delve 2.0 fight wirh the following restrictions:

turn off gearswap spellcast battlemod lightluggage erc TPpary is fine
create macros with 5 lines, if you multiple gearswaps proceed to make multple macros, no automatic gearswaping allowed for anything.
your weapon should be ilvl 117 or augmented 115 at best skirmish +2 weapon no RME weapons
your gear should be ilvl 115 lower with some AF left at 109 tops, if useing 119 skirmish gear keep the augments shitty. dont utilize more then 3 delve 2.0 gear 1.0 is fine to use.
your brd has only 2 songs (no gils to get 3 songs)

thats the average joe now proceed to clear D or VD battles or delve 2.0 and feel the gap between your decked out mythic group. restricions apply to all pt members.

When you're using a bunch of add-ons, the best gear, RMEs, buffswaps, skilled people and arguably "cheating" are you surprised when nothing manages to be a challenge? Every single one of you has been playing this game since the CoP era and I think it's safe to say that nothing has ever been so legitimately hard in this game from a technical standpoint. AV was a gigantic ruse and PW was a matter of getting enough people together and the trigs. That something like Titan hard manages to be more difficult than anything XI ever managed to churn out in all its years of living and breathing is easily seen by the number of ex-XI players completely unprepared for the shift in gameplay styles. But we shouldn't compare XI to XIV because they're two different beasts.

XI has always been about the thrill of the hunt, the slow caress of turning a marble slab into a beautiful statue amidst all the hardships of poorly designed content, JP midnight waits, horrifying droprates, linkshell politics and Tanaka-esque mystery about everything. What exactly does this food item do? How the fuck do you make Goblin Drink? Can Puppetmaster be viable in this dimension? Do Skirmish Pephredo even exist?

The community and the slow crawl is what made XI the game you decided to play for years.
It was the people, the little victories in a game that wanted to punch you in the dick at every turn.
The dream of one day being able to overcome it all and stand from the highest mountaintop shouting "fuck youuuuuu" to that great big middle-aged japanese psychopath in the sky.
Chatting out bullshit on vent while some assholes in another LS tried to MPK your group because they were 16 year old faggots... like you.
Slowly figuring out all those mysteries and submitting a 100 page report on your findings regarding the viability of sushi for peer review.
Camping that Charybdis for 8 hours with your bros against RMT.
Having BG describe how to fix kings and the devs laugh in your face.
Hearing about this mystic indian guru crash servers with some keystrokes.
Getting that 4AM phonecall from an obese LS officer telling you to login for Tiamat now or face "consequences"
Posting nudes that some chick decided to email in exchange for her DKP to mysteriously increase.
Nigga stole my linkshell bank, wow.
"THIS GAME IS FINISHED WITHOUT US." said everyone on the day Dala....Salvage bans fell from the sky.

XI needs to get back to community without completely resorting to RNGs. Server merges should have been prioritized months ago. Game needs some type of duty finder stat. The games lost alot of soul frankly because you've all figured everything out. There is little in the way of mystery anymore. Everything is callously dissected and thrown into spreadsheets for the sake of efficiency and this is your reward. No one wants to divert from the established roads so it becomes mundane or simply not enjoyable. Too many ultimate weapons flying around. It's like that point where you're hitting everything for 9999 dmg in an offline FF game for some.

Slower, delicate grinds like Magians or GEO/RUN mythics (without the time gates) backed by spontaneous content in the vein of Nyzul/MMM/Meebles incorporating what has been learned over the years is probably the best path forward. Job points were an opportunity blown to bring back solid bonding through EXP. It's slow. It's painful. But you could actually progress at your own pace. Too bad Job Points don't have the oomph similar to what happened with Evoliths. Speaking of Evoliths....

[Warusha]

When you're using a bunch of add-ons, the best gear, RMEs, buffswaps, skilled people and arguably "cheating" are you surprised when nothing manages to be a challenge? Every single one of you has been playing this game since the CoP era and I think it's safe to say that nothing has ever been so legitimately hard in this game from a technical standpoint. AV was a gigantic ruse and PW was a matter of getting enough people together and the trigs. That something like Titan hard manages to be more difficult than anything XI ever managed to churn out in all its years of living and breathing is easily seen by the number of ex-XI players completely unprepared for the shift in gameplay styles. But we shouldn't compare XI to XIV because they're two different beasts.

XI has always been about the thrill of the hunt, the slow caress of turning a marble slab into a beautiful statue amidst all the hardships of poorly designed content, JP midnight waits, horrifying droprates, linkshell politics and Tanaka-esque mystery about everything. What exactly does this food item do? How the fuck do you make Goblin Drink? Can Puppetmaster be viable in this dimension? Do Skirmish Pephredo even exist?

The community and the slow crawl is what made XI the game you decided to play for years.
It was the people, the little victories in a game that wanted to punch you in the dick at every turn.
The dream of one day being able to overcome it all and stand from the highest mountaintop shouting "fuck youuuuuu" to that great big middle-aged japanese psychopath in the sky.
Chatting out bullshit on vent while some assholes in another LS tried to MPK your group because they were 16 year old faggots... like you.
Slowly figuring out all those mysteries and submitting a 100 page report on your findings regarding the viability of sushi for peer review.
Camping that Charybdis for 8 hours with your bros against RMT.
Getting that 4AM phonecall from an obese LS officer telling you to login for Tiamat or face "consequences"
Posting nudes that some chick decided to email in exchange for her DKP to mysteriously increase.
Nigga stole my linkshell bank.
"THIS GAME IS FINISHED!" after the Salvage bans came down.

XI needs to get back to community without completely resorting to RNGs. The games lost alot of soul frankly because you've all figured everything out. There is little in the way of mystery anymore. Everything is callously dissected and thrown into spreadsheets for the sake of efficiency and this is your reward.

Slower, delicate grinds like Magians or GEO/RUN mythics (without the time gates) backed by spontaneous content in the vein of Nyzul/MMM/Meebles incorporating what has been learned over the years is probably the best path forward. Job points were an opportunity blown to bring back solid bonding through EXP. It's slow. It's painful. But you could actually progress at your own pace. Too bad Job Points don't have the oomph similar to what happened with Evoliths. Speaking of Evoliths....

Man you are a wizard with words. I feel like I was just enchanted or some shit. Literally, that was like reading a poem.

Good points though

[Draylo]

When you're using a bunch of add-ons, the best gear, RMEs, buffswaps, skilled people and arguably "cheating" are you surprised when nothing manages to be a challenge? Every single one of you has been playing this game since the CoP era and I think it's safe to say that nothing has ever been so legitimately hard in this game from a technical standpoint. AV was a gigantic ruse and PW was a matter of getting enough people together and the trigs. That something like Titan hard manages to be more difficult than anything XI ever managed to churn out in all its years of living and breathing is easily seen by the number of ex-XI players completely unprepared for the shift in gameplay styles. But we shouldn't compare XI to XIV because they're two different beasts.

XI has always been about the thrill of the hunt, the slow caress of turning a marble slab into a beautiful statue amidst all the hardships of poorly designed content, JP midnight waits, horrifying droprates, linkshell politics and Tanaka-esque mystery about everything. What exactly does this food item do? How the fuck do you make Goblin Drink? Can Puppetmaster be viable in this dimension? Do Skirmish Pephredo even exist?

The community and the slow crawl is what made XI the game you decided to play for years.
It was the people, the little victories in a game that wanted to punch you in the dick at every turn.
The dream of one day being able to overcome it all and stand from the highest mountaintop shouting "fuck youuuuuu" to that great big middle-aged japanese psychopath in the sky.
Chatting out bullshit on vent while some assholes in another LS tried to MPK your group because they were 16 year old faggots... like you.
Slowly figuring out all those mysteries and submitting a 100 page report on your findings regarding the viability of sushi for peer review.
Camping that Charybdis for 8 hours with your bros against RMT.
Having BG describe how to fix kings and the devs laugh in your face.
Hearing about this mystic indian guru crash servers with some keystrokes.
Getting that 4AM phonecall from an obese LS officer telling you to login for Tiamat now or face "consequences"
Posting nudes that some chick decided to email in exchange for her DKP to mysteriously increase.
Nigga stole my linkshell bank, wow.
"THIS GAME IS FINISHED WITHOUT US." said everyone on the day Dala....Salvage bans fell from the sky.

XI needs to get back to community without completely resorting to RNGs. Server merges should have been prioritized months ago. Game needs some type of duty finder stat. The games lost alot of soul frankly because you've all figured everything out. There is little in the way of mystery anymore. Everything is callously dissected and thrown into spreadsheets for the sake of efficiency and this is your reward. No one wants to divert from the established roads so it becomes mundane or simply not enjoyable. Too many ultimate weapons flying around. It's like that point where you're hitting everything for 9999 dmg in an offline FF game for some.

Slower, delicate grinds like Magians or GEO/RUN mythics (without the time gates) backed by spontaneous content in the vein of Nyzul/MMM/Meebles incorporating what has been learned over the years is probably the best path forward. Job points were an opportunity blown to bring back solid bonding through EXP. It's slow. It's painful. But you could actually progress at your own pace. Too bad Job Points don't have the oomph similar to what happened with Evoliths. Speaking of Evoliths....

Yay the nostalgia goggles poster, just what we needed to complete the thread.

[ccl]

(mythic owner)

I can do with tsurumaru or even with my Oatixur mnk if you want.

[ronin sparthos]

One day Draylo, you'll read and comprehend. One day.

Also, my post wasn't nostalgia goggles. It states that once XI decided to change what made XI different from its competition in tandem with an aging game and a hardcore base that's reduced to spreadsheeting everything armed to the teeth with every third-party tool devised by man you're never going to satisfy their hunger in terms of difficulty. To do so would be to create content for 20 people per server or more 'we either stun this or everyone dies instantly' content. SE has never been that clever, don't expect them to start now. Much of what kept people playing for years was mystery and RNG not actual content.

Instead, slow grinds that keep the adventure going forever is most wise. Tiered so anyone can do it but reasonably crafted such that hardcores would throw hundreds of hours into it and feel accomplished by virtue of just doing it. So basically Job Points that aren't shit or some kind of 're-level your job' system under a new name like FF1. But this time the TNLs are insane and you can't 'byssea that shit.

Perhaps some randomized content (like that old event where mobs just kept falling from the roof) or 'build your own' shit like MMM with non-crap rewards. Monstrosity could also use some more tender loving care.

[arus2001]

One day Draylo, you'll read and comprehend. One day.

You have higher hopes than I. Either way, pretty much spot on with everything, past, present, and future about the game with bonus sarcasm and parody.

[Draylo]

One day Draylo, you'll read and comprehend. One day.

Also, my post wasn't nostalgia goggles. It defines that once XI decided to change what made XI different from its competition in tandem with an aging game and a hardcore base that's reduced to spreadsheeting everything armed to the teeth with every third-party tool devised by man you're never going to satisfy their hunger in terms of difficulty. To do so would be to create content for 20 people per server.

Instead, slow grinds that keep the adventure going forever is properly most wise. Tiered so anyone can do it but reasonably crafted such that hardcores would throw hundreds of hours into it and feel accomplished by virtue of just doing it. So basically Job Points that aren't shit. Perhaps some randomized content or 'build your own' shit like MMM with non-crap rewards. Monstrosity could also use some more tender loving care.

One day you'll stop posting useless shit. Your post was 100% nostalgia dribble that was so off topic. The same people asking for difficult content gave you references of content that was only 6mo~2 years old, Legion, Delve 1.0. etc. Everything else is able to be low man or "grinded" by casuals. They are asking for another current event similar to the ones they referenced. No shit, monstrosity needs updates and new content is nice, what exactly are you contributing to this discussion? Parses, BiS gear and third-party tools are in XIV as well as many other MMO's. Put the goggles down sunny.