Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Priran]

whats really dumb is that people get up in arms when there is even a suggestion of a new set of ultimate weapons requiring current/new unreleased hard content directly.

A new set? Whatever, fine. Trying to obsolete every old set, losing a significant number of subscribers over it, fixing it, and then going back to try this again by obsoleting all but the kind that's least common and also rate-limited? I see what they're doing and my problem with it is them being disingenuous about RMEs' place in the game, moving the goalposts, and experimenting on an anemic playerbase with something that's lost them truckloads of subscribers in the past.

[dasva]

whats really dumb is that people get up in arms when there is even a suggestion of a new set of ultimate weapons requiring current/new unreleased hard content directly.

More like people getting up in arms when weapons that take all of 30 minutes to obtain obsoleting older REMs that even as easy as they are now are significantly harder and more time consuming than newer weapons. Then going back and making some just some of the REMs a bit better again then coming out with newer OP weapons that are easy to get. Sorry too much rat racing artificial time sinking. Bring back the age of side grading please

[Ophannus]

A new set of ultimate weapons that unlocks a new WS or a new JA/Spell would be great. They need more gear that unlocks powerful spells/JA, would be neat; like Impact, but maybe job specific spells and JAs.

An example would be maybe a Circlet for RDM/PLD/SCH/WHM/BRD that allows them to cast "Wall" which could be 10-15% DT that stacks with Pro/Shell(and also gives BDT).

[Bukadan]

yea but why cant it be REMX, X being new set of weapons? what does any of that have to do with a new set of weapons? they would require the same amount of progressional obtainment that REM's had in their haydays. that means when they were new, not as of now. im not talking about get-in-30mins weapons. im talking about weapons that you get by doing current/yet unreleased content that is up to that standards of today. casuals would take longer to get it so you wouldnt have everyone and their mom with a 5 hour a week playtime getting them in even a month (to clarify, like delve weapons). that whole situation is what im saying. what would be wrong with REMX as opposed to REM? you should be ok with this given your reasons for not being ok with delve, and losing subscribers ect. i mean lets face it, at this point in the game you fall into one of the following catagories: obliterate all content easily and then take a break till next update, sit around beating content occasionally because you sometimes lose while upgrading REM that wont even help because youre mediocre at the game, or you obliterate content while accumulating weapons to help you do what you do in the first place. we need a new long term goal.

[arus2001]

Because someone playing the "instant gratification" card doesn't make stupid grinds any less dumb. Time and gil have been the prevailing factors for why someone may or may not have an RME. Some are smart enough to look at things ahead of time and go, "Fuck that..." but let's not pretend the people that still go through with it are of higher intelligence and integrity. "Fuck that!" moments are not what SE needs right now.

[Bukadan]

if youre responding to what i said then you misunderstood, lol. i didnt play the instant gratification card. i never even mentioned a time frame of completion. my question is whats wrong with REMX in the context of what i posted? consider it a time gated gil heavy procedure spanning whatever.

editted my post, my brothers kid has me getting no sleep so im lashing out lol

[Priran]

yea but why cant it be REMX, X being new set of weapons? what does any of that have to do with a new set of weapons? they would require the same amount of progressional obtainment that REM's had in their haydays. that means when they were new, not as of now. im not talking about get-in-30mins weapons. im talking about weapons that you get by doing current/yet unreleased content that is up to that standards of today. casuals would take longer to get it so you wouldnt have everyone and their mom with a 5 hour a week playtime getting them in even a month (to clarify, like delve weapons). that whole situation is what im saying. what would be wrong with REMX as opposed to REM? you should be ok with this given your reasons for not being ok with delve, and losing subscribers ect. i mean lets face it, at this point in the game you fall into one of the following catagories: obliterate all content easily and then take a break till next update, sit around beating content occasionally because you sometimes lose while upgrading REM that wont even help because youre mediocre at the game, or you obliterate content while accumulating weapons to help you do what you do in the first place. we need a new long term goal.

If you're talking about the weapons for tomorrow's update with the augments, they are likely going to come from Alluvion Skirmish, upgraded from existing +2 Skirmish weapons. They will be easy as hell to get.

[Bukadan]

im not im talking about releasing a whole new set and content with difficulty akin to REM when they first came out/in their hayday. so basically if you want the best weapon, you have to go through something similer to ergon weapons except with different requirments like VD clears a certiain number of times for all battlefields, then like, you know, beat shit from unreleased content, and finally some large amount of currency that comes from that unreleased content as well.

[arus2001]

I doubt you'll find anyone who has a problem with content pertinent quest lines. What I was more or less emphasizing is the stupidity of associating gil-driven grinds with that. The HPB aspect of Ergons stands out here.

[dasva]

A new set of ultimate weapons that unlocks a new WS or a new JA/Spell would be great. They need more gear that unlocks powerful spells/JA, would be neat; like Impact, but maybe job specific spells and JAs.

An example would be maybe a Circlet for RDM/PLD/SCH/WHM/BRD that allows them to cast "Wall" which could be 10-15% DT that stacks with Pro/Shell(and also gives BDT).

I'm confused why you mentioned that DT would stack with +defense and mdt and gives bdt? Is there any reason it shouldn't or do you mean it goes above the caps or is applied multiplicatively or something?

[Capuchin]

I think it would be fine too, but I don't see them adding that unless the augments are random and you can get all songs +1 - 3 as an augment. Are there any relics that are completely useless anymore? Claustrum used to be the go to joke relic but it has magic damage on it at 119 so it's not super terrible anymore. Mjollnir is still only a melee whm toy. Everyone hates Gungnir but it's not useless. Kikoku might be, I don't play nin so I can't really tell just by looking at it, there's not a ton of 119 katana anyway.

For instrument, what about a SINGLE song +4 augment? Would still leave Ghorn as undisputed winner since it's all songs, but provide a very useful alternative for those who aren't committed enough to make a relic. If Ballads were available, that's an easy pick since it's the biggest boost from currently available instruments. But even with another selection of songs (say, March/Madrigal/Minuet depending on augment item you use), that's a legitimately useful instrument for a non Ghorn BRD that doesn't outshine the relic. And hey, as someone who has lost count of how many Celaeno runs we've done for an LS mate who recently leveled BRD with no harp to show for it (damn you VW), I know one guy who'd surely welcome another March+3~4 weapon.

As for discussion of other relics, Kikoku is not at all a joke weapon. It's no worse than the second best mainhand katana in the game, only beaten by 119 Kannagi (which costs over twice as much due to HMP prices). Kikoku can even be #1 DPS in cases where it's hard to maintain Empy aftermath - though that's not terribly common on content that matters, since Blade: Hi is already NIN's best WS and a NIN would likely want to be using it anyway. Significant dropoff to 3rd place choice: currently AA katana, but we'll see what today's update brings for the new Muyingwa drop.

[Bukadan]

Actually a march instrument with +% duration would be at least situationally useful wouldnt it? With Haste II, Geohaste, it would have some uses even for ghorn bards right?

[Kincard]

Even as someone who plays pretty casually nowadays, I don't really have a problem with long and/or gil-intensive questlines, but I don't see the point of adding yet another legendary rank weapon to the game unless they have some great idea for it, because balancing RME is already a pain in the ass. Even the Empyrean weapons I never really understood, Relics were high base damage and Mythics were about enhancing your job and using your aftermath. I actually would rather see a legendary armor piece or something, or ammo? Something different.

When they raise the ilevel again there's probably going to be another shift in what's the best option between RME for certain jobs. I doubt they have something against relics specifically, because there's a few which IIRC are still good, like Mandau. They should've readjusted those WS alongside all the other ones though.

They should also probably do something about Epeolatry completely crushing the next best option. Another option with 15% PDTII or something. I'm not too familiar with what the difference between Idris and Dunna are, but I'm going to guess it's pretty big. I don't think there's any other job that's that screwed without their Mythic aside from BRD right now.

[Ophannus]

They said they will be new drops, no more upgrading old gear, those weapons will likely remain at +2 for eternity.

[dasva]

Actually a march instrument with +% duration would be at least situationally useful wouldnt it? With Haste II, Geohaste, it would have some uses even for ghorn bards right?

Well it'd have to have more than the +4 gives first and then it might work for marches but then it'd lead to other songs wearing off sooner so might be not worth the effort...

[Prothescar]

would just make singing other songs more of a pain in the ass. overlapping duration best duration

[Sechs]

I'm not too familiar with what the difference between Idris and Dunna are, but I'm going to guess it's pretty big.

Maybe I misunderstood you, but it's almost as you're comparing Epeolatry : Attir = Idris : Dunna.
Dunna ain't a club, it's a handbell, you can equip it at the same time as Idris D:

[Priran]

Maybe I misunderstood you, but it's almost as you're comparing Epeolatry : Attir = Idris : Dunna.
Dunna ain't a club, it's a handbell, you can equip it at the same time as Idris D:

the "Geomancy +" stat doesn't stack

[Sechs]

Then I completely missed the original report Ulenboro...something answered to Malithar.
The way I got it I thought that they do stack, but it's just that some GEO buffs have a "cap" and you reach it before 15% (10% idris, 5% Dunna) on many buffs.
So in the end it was just a non-stacking issue like Malithar originally reported?

[Priran]

Then I completely missed the original report Ulenboro...something answered to Malithar.
The way I got it I thought that they do stack, but it's just that some GEO buffs have a "cap" and you reach it before 15% (10% idris, 5% Dunna) on many buffs.
So in the end it was just a non-stacking issue like Malithar originally reported?

Maybe I misunderstood it then, I thought it was that the stat was only applied from the slot with the highest value a la movement speed.