Dev Tracker: Discussion

[dannyl]

ilvl WoE is going to be the best thing... seriously, i can already imagine the cluster fuck lol
I don't know about you guys, but I loved it

[Malithar]

As someone who actually did this for quite a while, I can assure you that it isn't the least bit productive. You'd need a bot to be running you around the zone, cycling through every reive for it to be a reasonable alternative to virtually anything else.

I dunno how you figure that. Friend of mine who does it praises it as being better than fishing ever could be, skirmish pieces, HPB drops, 150-200k bayld to turn into HPBs, capped sparks, capped merits, maybe some capes (when he needed em), and a negligible amount of CPs all from just one overnight stint.

Harkening back to the fishing debate that comes through here every so often, that required getting bait, being off exhaustion, hitting a cap, etc. This actually is 0 effort rewards that can easily add up very quickly.

[Dotsudoku]

Your friend is going to get his Ergon Weapon in two and a half years at the high end of that rate, assuming he's running his bot every moment of every day. Putting that in the "something's better than nothing" category is more than a stretch. You're literally not even playing the game anymore-- hell, the game may not even exist as we know it on that time scale

Again, this isn't idle speculation. I've done this already. You could be doing almost anything else and get your weapon in a small fraction of that amount of time

[Toth]

ilvl WoE is going to be the best thing... seriously, i can already imagine the cluster fuck lol
I don't know about you guys, but I loved it

Looking forward to seeing more 6-18 man content that's hard tbh. Especially one where every job is welcome.

[Priran]

WoE was disappointing because it was designed around the idea that random people would participate, and balanced around the idea that these random people would form into coordinated, effective alliances. Also, the droprate on everything was shit. It wasn't really until people massively outleveled the original design that every job became "welcome".

Low expectations for WoE 2.

[EjinCaitsith]

Preview of September Update
We are planning a quest continuing on the Wings of the Goddess Storyline and adding the new Summon, Atomos.
There will be new high level content designed for 6-18 players to challenge.
There will be a new ilevel version of Walk of Echoes. The monsters will be stronger, but the rewards will be greater.
We are planning on allowing players to equip an extra linkshell.
New Monster Raising content.

So 2 new ilevel events? Color me excited.

[dasva]

I dunno how you figure that. Friend of mine who does it praises it as being better than fishing ever could be, skirmish pieces, HPB drops, 150-200k bayld to turn into HPBs, capped sparks, capped merits, maybe some capes (when he needed em), and a negligible amount of CPs all from just one overnight stint.

Harkening back to the fishing debate that comes through here every so often, that required getting bait, being off exhaustion, hitting a cap, etc. This actually is 0 effort rewards that can easily add up very quickly.

Well yeah but fishing is like what 30k/hr now lol?

Let's see though solo is about what 4k a lair? Camping at one waiting for repops say around 10 min between each kill so 6 an hour. Say 8 hours counts as "overnight" So 48 kills. Assume around 5% HPB droprate from the reive itself. Not really sure how high it's hp so let's say 50 nukes to kill with having the 500 dmg thing up. You get 192k bayld (fits your number so 19 HPB converts), 2.4 direct drops, can't really figure other drops like parts that well so ignore them, 4.8k sparks from the reives itself and 12k from 500 dmg (not capped but still nice), not sure about xp from the thing I'll assume just as much as the balyd you got for ease + the RoE which would be 27.6 merits, and a rocking 12k CP lol.

So if we assume 10.2 gil/spark npc and 20k HPBs that ends up being about 600k in drops or 75k an hour. While also getting lots of merits and some CP. Much better than fishing now and not horrible for no real risk afk farm... on the other hand I'm getting 8k sparks an hour in monstrosity with no risk and if I ever set up something to just kill SoA RoE mobs I'm sure it'd go a lot higher... though you'd run into caps on sparks fast and with no direct HPB drop limits how much time you can be afk unless you have something that dumps when you cap as well

[Roundelk]

Did a run in Rala and got Scythe from Corse.

[ronin sparthos]

WoE was disappointing because it was designed around the idea that random people would participate, and balanced around the idea that these random people would form into coordinated, effective alliances. Also, the droprate on everything was shit. It wasn't really until people massively outleveled the original design that every job became "welcome".

Low expectations for WoE 2.

Kinda confident that 'new' SE will have loot setup that you can turn in points for an eventual reward and many of the gimmicky elements of WOE will be flattened out and simplified to 'kill monsters, kill boss monsters, win.' design.

[Draylo]

I wonder if the ilevel WOE is due to atomos or something. Otherwise I wonder if they'll revamp other content like MMM and such to have ilevel.

[Hitou]

I kinda hope not for MMM, or meebles for that matter. Neither one was super popular but there was always just enough people trying to go at once that you get the stupid "hand of darkness" message over and over again. Maybe if SE knew how to instance...

[dasva]

I'd love an MMM if SE could ya know at least make several different zones for it like WoE has. Instead of spending an hour getting the aforementioned pimp hand of darkness

[Flippant]

Also price for ergon is 2.5x more because of player intervention. Square doesnt make the price, players do. When mythics came out, they were 16-18k each for the first year or so. Also if you recall, alex requirement used to be 50k not 30k and they dropped the requirement like 2 years later after hundreds of people had finished already. Not only that, but unlike HPB, alex could only be acquired once per day and the content required at least a good group of 4-5 players to clear at the least. HPB can be farmed by anyone doing reives or wkr or exchanging their bayld at any time.

I see blm bots sitting at lair reives in rakaznar for days at a time and auto-nuke soloing with Moogle and Star Sibyl trusts and the Reive respawn every 5min. They must rack up hundreds of thousands of bayld per day automatically(you get a solid 3-4k soloing a lair reive without touching any of the adds). Also he probably gets a fair amount of HP bayld as a direct reward from the Reive and any of those cases/crates that can drop from them too(or is that WKR only?).

Point is hpb is easier to acquire than alexandrites were 6 years ago, and will probably get easier as bayld becomes easier to obtain, and content starts dropping more bayld boxes.

Um wut. Alexandrites started around 5k-8k and quickly dropped off after more was known about the aftermath, leveling to about to 2-3k until later Magian Trials. Also, Alex requirement was dropped from 50k to 30k almost exactly three months after Mythic quests were first released. First Mythic completed (or at least first one reported) wasn't until another three months after that. Alex was far more common because it was a by-product of an event that was fairly popular, as it was not very difficult to find a group for by then and actually provided some good gear that often took weeks of runs to complete. Its price was fairly low (albeit the economy has obviously changed since then, so 2-3k isn't quite the same nowadays) because there was high supply and low, low demand. Price started climbing as Mythics got better and Salvage gear was outdated, turning the event strictly into a means of farming gil, which meant price had to stay relatively high to maintain incentive despite the growing ease.

Difficulty is not the only thing that dictates price. Just because something is "easier" for the average person doesn't mean they are going to go do it, nor does it make it less time-consuming compared to other alternatives.

[Shenrien]

ilvl woe probably won't be too difficult if they keep the current system. Especially if things like PD are global buffs, go in with an army of SMN, buff up a bunch of DDs and rotate PD until w/e you're killing is dead. Here is hoping that they actually make proper adjustments to avoid that scenario tho because old WoE when it was released was fucking epic with how hard it was.

[Seha]

Reading up I guess I'm not the only one who wasn't a great fan of Walk of Echoes..never liked that thing much at all :/

[Malithar]

Your friend is going to get his Ergon Weapon in two and a half years at the high end of that rate, assuming he's running his bot every moment of every day. Putting that in the "something's better than nothing" category is more than a stretch. You're literally not even playing the game anymore-- hell, the game may not even exist as we know it on that time scale

Again, this isn't idle speculation. I've done this already. You could be doing almost anything else and get your weapon in a small fraction of that amount of time

I'm not sure where you got the idea that he was making a weapon. The post saying this was the only thing making them feasible was directed at adding supply to the server, since WKRs and Reives aren't serving this purpose very well. He's selling everything he gets, and with him just having a kid, multiple days there afk farming add up quick when it comes to supplying an Ergon builder with a decent % of what they need. We even joked that this was SE's plan all along, since the fish nerf and Ra'kaznar reive timer reduction took place in the same update.

Dasva's numbers were pretty close he said, but really gotta factor in the skirmish pieces when it comes to income, which you can't do accurately.

[Dotsudoku]

Skirmish pieces don't add much in the way of net gil; Expensive pieces are as rare as one would expect.

And if your friend is complacent in being AFK for inordinate periods of time, I'm sure this works well enough. He's an extreme outlier though, and my point still stands: virtually anything would be better for gil or Ergon-making

[Hitou]

I kinda doubt afk farming stacks of rabbit hides in east ronfaure and npcing them would make more gil but whatever. Why is this such a hot topic for debate? Malithar said his friend is adding HP bayld to market by spamming lair reives. Doesn't really matter that he's afk or not, or if there's better ways to make gil afk or whatever your point is. Can have capped gil and it wouldn't matter if people aren't actively converting and selling their bayld. Which is the main problem with Ergon weapons. No one really knows if there's a market for selling HP bayld till you see a guy shouting to buy it for X gil each. So people hold on to millions of bayld wondering if there's gonna be something they need it for later.

[Dotsudoku]

Yes, becase I was was surely referring to every conceivable means of gil generation, and not the handful of more commonplace alternatives. Don't be obtuse.

His friend is bringing a completely insignificant amount of HP bayld into circulation. As I said, we're talking one Ergon Weapon in over two years of 24/7 botting.

Anyone with deep enough pockets could create one in a few months.



For the umpteenth time: if said friend is comfortable not actually playing the game and probably never finishing the weapon(if he's even making one? I don't recall anymore), I implore him to continue. The point -again- is that referring to this method as a reasonable solution to anyone but extraordinary outliers is disingenuous. Nobody is creating a weapon this way-- for themselves or anyone else

[Malithar]

His friend is bringing a completely insignificant amount of HP bayld into circulation. As I said, we're talking one Ergon Weapon in over two years of 24/7 botting.

500-600k bayld a day + HPB drops is far from that.

May I ask, what is your super-duper-amazing afk gil making tactic that has you up in arms about this? Where you as outspoken over anyone fish botting as you are this? If anything, this actually serves a means for the server. Maybe you discount skirmish parts and HPBs as being meaningful to the overall economy of the server, but there's plenty that do that content, and need these things available. At least it's supplying something, rather than just adding flat gil into the game.

Anyone with deep enough pockets could create one in a few months.

How deep is deep? Cause without the supply, which this helps to provide (multiplied by x number of other people that do the exact same thing), it doesn't really matter how loaded you are, you're gonna be stuck shouting and trolling bazaars for scraps that people have from a random reive or WKR.