Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Dotsudoku]

Your friend is lying, or is using a really advanced bot.

And three responses is hardly up in arms. Making me seem fanatical about something that's so blatantly and objectively wrong for all but a handful of players doesn't really change the point. Someone was wrong on the internet, and I'm correcting them. Nobody's losing sleep over this discussion.

[Dotsudoku]

How deep is deep? Cause without the supply, which this helps to provide (multiplied by x number of other people that do the exact same thing), it doesn't really matter how loaded you are, you're gonna be stuck shouting and trolling bazaars for scraps that people have from a random reive or WKR.

Create incentive. Pay people do to it instead of paying them for having bayld. We already know how effective this is. Many a mythic was created this way in the alexandrite dark ages.

[Malithar]

Your friend is lying

Yeah, when he said Dasva's math as to how much he'd earn in an 8 hour period was pretty close, I guess he was lying through his teeth.

And nah, I'm third shift so I got another 2-3 hours more of this in me, ain't losin nothin. I don't see how you think it's wrong though. If anything, after the numbers we've seen from Idris, other BG members might be interested in making it. And what if they're the 3rd, 4th, 10th, etc person on their server to begin buying up HPBs? Market is going to be stale. But that's ok, with deep enough pockets, they can just materialize all those HPBs infront of em, yeah? At least with this tactic, they can do just that, over time, with multiple characters/friends or whatever. It's something.

Thanks for dodging the question though. Still curious what's so much better than this that you feel the need to prove it wrong. Since you mentioned other common means of obtaining gil, I can only assume you mean Delve/Dyna/Salvage/Skirmish. How's doing those afk for days working out?

Create incentive. Pay people do to it instead of paying them for having bayld. We already know how effective this is. Many a mythic was created this way in the alexandrite dark ages.

Yeah, you're talking retard deep there. If you yourself are saying what you earn is too little to bother with yourself over other means, what makes you think another would take you up on any meaningful offer to farm HPBs for you? Dyna and Salvage destroy what gains you'd make in a similar time period. I don't think I'd go and farm HPBs for someone for anything shy of at least 80k, time just isn't worth it. But afk time? How can you argue that?

[Dotsudoku]

You're asking me to provide an AFK-for-days alternative when one of the core tenants of my argument was having rejected that practice itself as a reasonable solution. I'm not dodging, that's just not a relevant question to be asking me

[Malithar]

Yeah, no. Your original comment over the whole deal was:

As someone who actually did this for quite a while, I can assure you that it isn't the least bit productive. You'd need a bot to be running you around the zone, cycling through every reive for it to be a reasonable alternative to virtually anything else.

In response to it being an overnight deal. So what's more productive overnight?

[Dotsudoku]

So I jumped in the conversation at a time that awkwardly poised my point. I'm sorry.

I've explicitly stated that's not the case probably as many times as I've actually responded.

[Sechs]

people need to understand that bringing melee's and shit to woe is way better than pet jobs. in fact the pet jobs made it harder with the mob running around and ws'ing people pre-woe update. i mean how hard is it to put on a dt set when the mob readies a ws, lol.

Stupid people have no job, there can be stupid players among DDs just like pet jobs.
If you want to send pet jobs away from WoE as well where do you suggest they can play and do stuff?
Or should SE just eliminate pet jobs from the game to make you happy?

Good luck soloing WoE (yes SOLOING, bringing in 2000 mules is not SOLO) before SoA on the majority of non pet jobs.
Some # were really difficult without pet jobs and I have no problem with that, there hardly is content suited for Pet Jobs, having something where they can shine for a bit seems only right to me.
Not like people ever cared particularly for WoE anyway, even back in the days.

[Sechs]

I kinda hope not for MMM, or meebles for that matter. Neither one was super popular

This is not necessarily bad. If it wasn't popular it will feel "new" to a larger part of people, that's actually even more reason to revamp something, imho.
The issues I see with Meebles and MMM (which appearently only bugged me since I never saw anybody else talking about it) is that the two systems were a bit convoluted, with all those books, pheromones, timers for recharge, timer for entry etc.
And in MMM all the different combinations, ways to obtain those tabulas, the different currencies to use, the entry time limits... I always foudn them convoluted without any good reason.

Plus, again, we're talking about 6men content. I'm kinda looking forward for something "bigger" =/

[Sechs]

Reading up I guess I'm not the only one who wasn't a great fan of Walk of Echoes..never liked that thing much at all :/

It just never worked. They tried so many different approaches but none really worked.
Now if they went the approach of "reservable" zones which require alliances then it might have work. With a gating system of can only enter X times a day (kinda like Dynamis, Einherjar, Limbus etc) it could have worked.
But with everybody being able to enter you'd always get that lonely player/group fucking up your strategies.
I remember this happening when we tried to make it a LS event during the first version (chests only for the first X people) and even in the second version where we kinda gave up to do it as a LS event and were going there as small groups of friends.


Really, the only time where I started to find the event less obnoxious is when I could outgear the stuff, especially with but not only limited to pet jobs (I'm talking before SoA btw)



@Malithar
Only thing I can say about HP Bayld is that I think the rate of Pouch from WKR is not quite where it should.
I recently reached quota 41 fights, all or most of them were with me getting capped Bayld/XP so, in theory, a "good evaluation", and in those 41 fights I never saw a single pouch. Now statistically 0/41 might not be a large enough set, but still 0/41 is just not right. Rate should be higher, it should be this low from normal Colonization Reives, imho.
Speaking about which, they kinda stopped being fun for me. I don't know what it is but I was actually enjoying Colo Reives in the first months of SoA.
You couldn't solo them (SOLO, not "solo with 2000 mules"), you needed cooperation, some of those mobs were actually nasty if you didn't pay attention and they lasted long enough for others to repop and to get good evaluations.
Now it's hard to find them up, when you do there's always that moron who zergs the wall and ends the Reive in 50 seconds.
I dunno, it stopped being "entertaining".
If their reason to make them more easy was that "sometimes they block the way and people cannot pass" then they should have solved this issue (i.e. give people alternate routes) instead of making them so easy.
They already got much easier thanks to ilevel gear, and SE made it even worse by cutting the Colo's HP and damage and blahblah.
Really I don't know what to say, maybe it's just me but they just stopped being entertaining.

[Dotsudoku]

So I jumped in the conversation at a time that awkwardly poised my point. I'm sorry.

I've explicitly stated that's not the case probably as many times as I've actually responded.

Related: I'm not sure where the 4k bayld figure came from. I just went to Ra'Kaznar to reaffirm my previous rates, and I barely broke 2,000 on NIN in ~3 minutes. Any slower and productivity slopes off by virtue of fewer reives/H, any faster and you're getting even less bayld.

[Hitou]

His point was probably that DD would kill things faster than throwing garuda at everything. Which would be true if people bothered to go support jobs and actually do their job in the history of WoE. Dead melee deal no damage. I used to spam that crap during the times it was popular, or unpopular too I guess. Anyone that went on melee jobs would generally just end up dying because no one was there to cure them. Even plds would end up dying before the 99 cap, and people would just wear twilight set and RR die over and over again to try to get a decent evaluation.

The system had potential but ended up being way to chaotic to actually accomplish at launch and then became irrelevant because empyreans were easier to build. There was a tiny period where getting a WoE weapon was a good idea. Then a large gap where no one did it at all. Then the WoE nerf which brought a smallish period of rebirth followed by a 2nd large gap, and finally allowing people to unlock ws via the 99 weapons bringing back some life into the system.

[dasva]

Should add that if he afks for too long (by the math it's about 24 hours) he will start losing potential earnings because of the whole spark cap... so basically it sounds like it's pretty good if you afk mostly for gil and can't check it and dump sparks more than once a day (and don't have an advanced enough bot to do automatically do it for you) but can definitely check it everyday at around the same time of day

[Damane]

Should add that if he afks for too long (by the math it's about 24 hours) he will start losing potential earnings because of the whole spark cap... so basically it sounds like it's pretty good if you afk mostly for gil and can't check it and dump sparks more than once a day (and don't have an advanced enough bot to do automatically do it for you) but can definitely check it everyday at around the same time of day

less 12 hours and you cap sparks mostly (well depends on job and set up)

[GImpers]

People went mainly DD to WoE because the evaluations for mages were/are worse than a DD. SE has never done mage evaluations correctly.

[Kyte]

@Malithar
Only thing I can say about HP Bayld is that I think the rate of Pouch from WKR is not quite where it should.

That's the understatement of the year. I've done many, many WKs and neither I nor anyone I talk to on a regular basis has ever seen one.

[Sechs]

I know people who dropped one, but still... a rate such as that would be fine for normal colo reives, not WKR.
If they have no intention to change anything about HP Bayld, they should at least increast (at least slightly?!) the drop rate of pouches from WKRs.

[Hitou]

I've never seen a pouch either. I honestly forgot they even added them.

[dasva]

less 12 hours and you cap sparks mostly (well depends on job and set up)

I meant with that method of just staying at 1 lair and nuking it obviously there are other ways to cap much faster. My mons cap in about 6

[dasva]

That's the understatement of the year. I've done many, many WKs and neither I nor anyone I talk to on a regular basis has ever seen one.

The only one I saw was from Plucking Wings

[Damane]

I meant with that method of just staying at 1 lair and nuking it obviously there are other ways to cap much faster. My mons cap in about 6

I am talkign about that method, -ga 1 spells from /blm do wonders when you hit constantly 5 targets whith each nuke. 1 lair reive nets you 60~ 500 dmg + objectives. obviously you need some specific gear for it to not run out of MP, like 2 pieces are essential for this to work.