Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Priran]

Very few jobs are capable of contributing at the level needed to not be baggage in Delve in a party by themselves, and "ugh you mean we'd have to do a buff rotation?" is frequently enough to make the supports take up the "6-man or bust" position. At the end of the day it's about incentives and if you only need 6 people to do any event, and doing it with more makes it at best just as difficult and slightly less rewarding as not, nobody will do it with anything but 6.

[Damane]

Very few jobs are capable of contributing at the level needed to not be baggage in Delve in a party by themselves, and "ugh you mean we'd have to do a buff rotation?" is frequently enough to make the supports take up the "6-man or bust" position. At the end of the day it's about incentives and if you only need 6 people to do any event, and doing it with more makes it at best just as difficult and slightly less rewarding as not, nobody will do it with anything but 6.

it all depends on the versatility of the people. if you had 9 peeps you could do 1 melee pt and 1 pt with geo and 2 sch or blms. many people still dont see how insane nukeing has become with proper buffs (acumen & malaise). ovviously it boils down to if your peeps have the versatility and gear to change around, which is mostly not the case.

[Bukadan]

my question is though, why arent people able to see that? between malithar and damanes posts, there is a clear foundation of efficiency that actually extends beyond the cookie cutter jobs.

[Malithar]

my question is though, why arent people able to see that? between malithar and damanes posts, there is a clear foundation of efficiency that actually extends beyond the cookie cutter jobs.

In my experience, because it's not the established way, most don't want to bother. Once some knucklehead noob reads about someone "easily clearing" X content with Y setup, then that's "the" setup to go with. Case in point, Mnks were used for early Tojil clears due to Formless helping with an additional 25% and Mantra rotation giving extra survivability to something that was very healing intensive early on, even more so if stuns flopped. It's not so much that Mnks aren't a solid job (it very much is), but Tojil is far and away doable with pretty much any combination of DDs. Yet there's still shouters that will spend hours if need be finding a 119 Mnk to fill out a run.

Brd, Whm, stunners, Pld and Rngs in those type of strats, etc, those jobs make sense to "need" and seek out, simply because for the established strategy, that's what's required, and Brd and Whm having quite the stranglehold on their respective roles. The majority won't go beyond those established strats unless they have absolutely no choice, and even then, they may disband before they give in and try something else.

For Delves anymore, I don't know what to attribute the 6 man only idea to. It's said (mostly on forums) that further dividing the rewards creates the sense of "why lower our take?" with bringing more people, but I've never personally seen that said in a pug or anything. In my own LS, it's because the additional people we could take from within LS beyond the 6-12 good one's we'd take would do nothing but add risk with no gain. The initial 6-12 we'd field are plenty capable of working and functioning in whatever way is needed, whether that's having 2 complete melee or Rng parties, or filling out an additional nuking party like Damane said. It's not the most efficient or optimal means to complete the content, but really, who honestly cares about that anymore beyond Joe-Pug-Leech? Most on these boards brag that everything is so easy, so why worry so much about running content with the absolute optimal setup? I'd rather just have fun with the people who share the same goals and play on a level that can accomplish them.

TL;DR: I've got the same question, with no real answer lol.

[Damane]

my question is though, why arent people able to see that? between malithar and damanes posts, there is a clear foundation of efficiency that actually extends beyond the cookie cutter jobs.

because people are affraid to try stuff out and see where it brings them (not to mention lack of gear versatility) just yesterday tried morimar 3man setup with mnk geo rdm, no stunner. managed to get to tojil with 17min left on first try, adds made stuff s bit more hard and the i dualboxed thr rdm put a straib on tojil. next time wont bother with removing aura on tojil and try to resist lahar with vex.

[Damane]

the dnc adjustment look nice on paper, but building that amount of step potency up is pointless, by the time you reach max potency the mob might be allready dead ¬.¬ my guess is an extensiv use of presto make things faster.

still nice dnc "could" potentially give -23% def down, 44 eva down, and 10% crit hit rate. The amount of time needed to build up to max lvl makes this change tough practical useless, they should have gone with an increased potency and cap.

DRG adjustments look interesting, but pointless if you enter hardmode mission battlefields where your wyvern cant level up, or basicly any battlefield where you cant get any exp.

[Prothescar]

holy shit those spells. DRG getting treated well here too

[Hitou]

Um, you can level up your wyvern with spirit link these days. These adjustments seem pretty good. Drg version of hasso kinda, hopefuly it's magic haste but it will probably be JA, not that it's a big deal unless you're with a dancer or something. Speaking of dnc, steps capping to 10 is actualy kinda nice since in longer fights you end up capping quickly and need to switch to another step just so you get 2 finishing moves.

Bst pets look like they're just gonna be 99 era ones that cap at 119, but that's not a bad thing. I wonder if you can also craft the jugs or if they'll be npc only. BLU spells might be useful. Probably depends on MP cost and what traits they end up giving. Not sure why we're getting two more light elemental nukes but if one of them is cheap like subduction I'm all over it.

Edit: holy crap I thought the att/def was for the wyvern. That's a way better buff than I thought. Gonna be really nice since drg is so attack starved on most things.

[PSOfanatic]

Finally DRG gets something useful. About damn time.

[Sechs]

by the time you reach max potency the mob might be allready dead ¬.¬

2,30 minutes to build a SINGLE step to top and supposing you won't miss any.

Contradance is cool, but I don't see the point for T4 or 5 waltz. It could be useful to heal more with lower tiers (saving TP) and to make Divine Waltz II something really epic.
Note: It says INCREASED amount of healing, not double. It could be like 1,5x or something.
AoE dispel is cool but with 5 mins cooldown it's not really something you can rely on.
They should have just released "Healing Waltz II" with a ~1,30mins cd.

All in all cool stuff but I don't see DNC's situation changing in alliance content. Even worse now that everybody lowmen everything there's even less space for "strange" jobs that you could have afforded to bring with larger setups.


What DNC would need, even after these changes:

Spoiler: show

Increased Haste Samba to 10% or Haste Samba II
Sambas being Alliance-wide and not party-wide
Increased power on the first step
Being able to use Waltzes during Saber Dance, but with 2x cooldown

At this point maybe DNC could become a decent DD, healer and supporter enough for someone to grant you a spot in some strange setup.

[Prothescar]

Now that my BLUgasm is over:

New BST pets are concerning. A couple of the families are interesting (beetle for sturdiness, lizard for Infrasonics, slug for debuffs and magic resistance), but the fact that they come from an NPC is potentially unfortunate. SE may just be attempting to make jugs less expensive (or more, depending on how they price them), but I suspect their overall power may suffer as a result of this.

DRG. Yeah. 20% ATT/DEF and 10% Haste just from having your pet out and alive is fucking monstrous; DRG getting a really nice buff here. Strafe and breath speed adjustments are probably pretty nice too assuming breaths actually work on anything modern.

Ermagerd BLU spells!!! Restoral is extremely welcome, have wanted it for a long time. Rain Cannon's recast time tells me that it should be pretty potent, but we'll have to see what that means in terms of usability once we've got it available. Diffusion Ray is the least exciting, though I'm not discounting anything after the blindside that was Subduction. Sinker Drill has amazing potential too; five hits is massive for blue magic since fTP transfers to every hit, and with recent adjustments physical spells are worthwhile with JAs on almost every piece of content. Getting a stronger spell (that potentially supplies a trait like Dual Wield IV) is more than welcome. As for UL spells, Uproot is awesome since it finally gives us a way to remove status ailments from ourselves... Crashing Thunder and Polar Roar probably suck. Additional Effect Accuracy JP category is potentially very nice.

DNC adjustments are touch-and-go. Divine Seal for Waltz is nice I guess? Not sure if it's actually something that will affect anything though since it only works on a single Waltz. Not a DNC wizard, but something tells me that building to 10 steps isn't gonna be easy and will likely be costly for personal DPS. That said, the implications of EVA/DEF/CritEVA debuffs stacking to 10 means quite a lot of utility has potentially been added to DNC's repertoire for harder fights, and if they ever add an ability or something that allows you to more frequently apply multiple stacks at once then yeah.

Uh, Valiance AoE range increase is nice too I guess? Thanks I suppose.

[Sechs]

Will the stacking to 10 apply to /DNC too? I don't remember the details of how different steps on /DNC work compared to DNC main, other than giving half the finishing maneuvers.

I'm a BLU noob, is there any way to foresee the Job Traits/combinations that will be available through these new spells?

[Damane]

Um, you can level up your wyvern with spirit link these days. These adjustments seem pretty good. Drg version of hasso kinda, hopefuly it's magic haste but it will probably be JA, not that it's a big deal unless you're with a dancer or something. Speaking of dnc, steps capping to 10 is actualy kinda nice since in longer fights you end up capping quickly and need to switch to another step just so you get 2 finishing moves.

Bst pets look like they're just gonna be 99 era ones that cap at 119, but that's not a bad thing. I wonder if you can also craft the jugs or if they'll be npc only. BLU spells might be useful. Probably depends on MP cost and what traits they end up giving. Not sure why we're getting two more light elemental nukes but if one of them is cheap like subduction I'm all over it.

Edit: holy crap I thought the att/def was for the wyvern. That's a way better buff than I thought. Gonna be really nice since drg is so attack starved on most things.

i really hope the haste isnt magic, but rather JA. magic haste would make the buff redundant in any situation you recieve caped magic haste allready. Ja haste would help them the most. if its ja haste then SE basicly gave DRG constant "hasso" and "berserk" with "defender" in one update that is constant. Note: the buff isnt dispellable and only goes off if the wyvern dies. I have no idea how easy wyverns can die nowadays. Its definitly and interesting change and will bring DRG closer up.

[Ophannus]

Finally, DRG gets a fulltime Berserk/Defender, without penalties, and a Hasso while our Wyvern is out. Probably the biggest buff to DRG ever.

[Prothescar]

Will the stacking to 10 apply to /DNC too? I don't remember the details of how different steps on /DNC work compared to DNC main, other than giving half the finishing maneuvers.

considering that it says the 6th step is unlocked at lv 50 and the 10th at 90? no.

I'm a BLU noob, is there any way to foresee the Job Traits/combinations that will be available through these new spells?

Nope. Only one we've been told we're getting is another DUal Wield spell, but who knows if it will be in this set.

[Hitou]

i really hope the haste isnt magic, but rather JA. magic haste would make the buff redundant in any situation you recieve caped magic haste allready. Ja haste would help them the most. if its ja haste then SE basicly gave DRG constant "hasso" and "berserk" with "defender" in one update that is constant. Note: the buff isnt dispellable and only goes off if the wyvern dies. I have no idea how easy wyverns can die nowadays. Its definitly and interesting change and will bring DRG closer up.

Yeah I'm sure it's gonna be JA haste anyway. I was mostly thinking magic haste because it has a higher cap but not going to be going over JA cap stacked with hasso unless a DNC main is giving you haste samba anyway so it's kinda moot. I usually don't lose wyvern unless I die or I'm not really paying attention to his/her? HP. Wyverns in generally are a lot sturdier than the DRG itself so unless you're not healing it or not riding Steady Wing the wyvern usually isn't gonna die before you do even in AoE spam unlike the old days.

[Sechs]

Oh right, derp, that table applies to the DNC job, not your current main job.
Well yeah, I'm glad they thought about that then.

[Ophannus]

Now the stakes are high to keep the Wyvern alive. Wyverns are hard to kill directly now, but they still die extremely easily when the Dragoon is KO'd, meaning DRG has much more at stake to lose being killed than any other job. Like a slow cure or not bringing holy waters and being KO'd on DRG will hurt our dps much more than any SAM or MNK that dies and gets Arise'd and is back to 100% efficiency. Scrubby DRGs will now be forced to be the first one to gather at a Delve or BCNM with wyvern in tow, to start the cooldown on Call Wyvern recast before the battle even begins.

Also I'm glad they gave spirit surge an attack boost so it's less worthless(if you were at capped haste, Spirit Surge was just a Max HP Boost, Cure V, Boost-STR and Accuracy+50 for 100 seconds, the Jump secondary effects were useless(weaker than angon, remove all mob's tp on high jump was pointless since SoA have huge regain). This fills in DRG's attack gap that it suffered for primarily subbing SAM with no native atk or haste boosts. Drk SAM and War all get either +atk or +haste and those 3 jobs are all either War or /war in that they all had some combo of hasso/berserk/last resort. Drg, by subbing sam, missed out on all the goodies the other 2h jobs were getting from /WAR. Although DA and Aggressor are not as necessary to DRG, owing to the Wyvern's pretty substantial DPS(when added to the DRG's).

My only concern now is that since breaths take 1 second to activate, the equipment that boosts Wyvern HP by a percent will be very tricky to use for Healing Breath. Most DRG know that there's a good 2-3 second delay between the time you equip AF Brais and when the Wyvern HP change is actually reflected. Due to that lag, DRG's healing breath potency is going to drop a good 20-30%. Even now, with a 2-3 second wyvern breath charge time, in laggy areas, even with GS, that delay causes a lot of low baller healing breaths(800-900 instead of 1400).

[Damane]

Yeah I'm sure it's gonna be JA haste anyway. I was mostly thinking magic haste because it has a higher cap but not going to be going over JA cap stacked with hasso unless a DNC main is giving you haste samba anyway so it's kinda moot. I usually don't lose wyvern unless I die or I'm not really paying attention to his/her? HP. Wyverns in generally are a lot sturdier than the DRG itself so unless you're not healing it or not riding Steady Wing the wyvern usually isn't gonna die before you do even in AoE spam unlike the old days.

JA haste is the best thing that could happen to DRG, it gives you alot of flexibility in SJ choice options and even stacking with hasso would make it good. usually currently in full buff siutations you are riding 43.75% magic haste, 25% gear haste and 10% JA haste from Hasso, thats 78.75% haste, almost to 80% haste cap, with additional JA haste you could gear differently on DRG and drop out gear haste, or you could sub a different sub like war for double attack. JA haste would open up the most possibilitys for DRG.

[Byrthnoth]

DRG buff is huge.

DNC buff fails to address any of the real problems with the job but is better than them having done nothing. Hooray, I can waste more time with steps now.