Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Fwahm]

No, each merit *including* the first makes Spirit Link give 200 xp to your Wyvern.

Someone needs to fix the BGwiki description for that merit, then.

[scaevola]

It's a good addition, it's something more so we can only be happy.
At the same time though we don't know the additional potency yet, and for single target Waltzes its main use is more that of saving TP with lower tiers, because a fully decked WaltzV can already heal for pretty insane values. How much is it at capped potency, over 1500 or something?
It's nice for Divine Waltz and super nice for Healing Waltz, but with 5 mins cooldown is not really radically change anything for DNC... unless you have a PT of DNCs and they rotate it >.>

I'm thinking it's particularly useful for Divine and Healing, not so much for single target. When I group on DNC it's usually to DD and backup heal for a non-WHM main healer*, so while they can usually stay ahead they tend to lack a large multitarget oh-shit heal or are unable to remove nasty statuses quickly and stay ahead on healing. Not only does this handle that for them but to the extent that aggro is ever an issue it transfers all the enmity from such a recovery onto one of the jobs best able to handle it.

It's certainly not a game changer, but I do think that insofar as SE has an endgame role in mind for DNC it's enhancing the overall staying power of a smaller, sub-optimal group**.


*IMO this is DNC's second biggest problem: it's really good at allowing your group to get away with a RDM or SCH on stuff that would normally require a WHM, but WHMs are everywhere so it never matters.

**the biggest problem is, of course, the game's job flexibility ensures this never actually happens among the players doing endgame

I mean, compared to Blu and Winds of Promyvion, it's quite far from that.

Yeah, but I try not to lose sleep over BLU envy.

[Bukadan]

the main issue of dancer is that in the grand scheme of things, the longer a monster is alive the deadlier it is. dancer doesnt provide much in the way of reducing a fights length and that in turn creates that very problem that dancer encounters when being faced with whether or not its acceptable in the part. if youre going for a sub-optimal group, without a whm, the melee would need to be defensive in their tactics (putting dt on when a mob readies a ws then switching back right after, ect, not that they shouldnt/couldnt do that anyways), which in most players case, due to lack of experience/game knowledge, would actually even further increase the main issue i stated above. all of that enmity, cure help, ect all are an attempt to reduce symptoms of a longer fight, which eventually no matter what you do, will become the same "kill it before it kills you" scenario.

thats not to say dancer isnt good, just you need high quality players to make it work well. its just when dealing with your average player groups, the "sub-optimal setup" becomes even less optimal because of the inability of the players surrounding the dancer.

so instead of fixing the job, i say educating people to be less narrow minded in their stubborn ways such as "i dont change gear because i dont have to to win", "your suggestion is cool, but fuck everything you just said because my opinion about it is the way it fucking is", and the ole "understood sir! *goes on to completely and utterly fail at everything suggested/implied for no obvious reason, as if theyre either incredibly flustered/overwhelmed, which theyll see as your suggesting being bad further diluting their ability to adapt later on*"

[scaevola]

the main issue of dancer is that in the grand scheme of things, the longer a monster is alive the deadlier it is.

sorry to snip your whole post, brother, but this really cuts to the quick: so many of the game's balance issues IMO come from the disconnect between a dev expectation that a boss will take, say, 10 minutes to kill when it's new and the reality that an appropriate buff cocktail for the right jobs will blow through it in 3 to 5.

So yeah, we're left with a situation where more defensive play will reward more diverse/underutilized setups with kills, but the mere fact that they take twice as long to do it means it'll never be fair to say it's easier since that's twice as long for something to go wrong, so conservative play is never really warranted.

I guess I'm not really sure what the solution is but boy howdy DNC is a lot of fun right now* and it'd be nice to see it get a little more action.

*it's really a testament to just how far the DNC star has fallen when the impact of making Evisceration the top unstacked Dagger WS basically passes without comment

[Damane]

sorry to snip your whole post, brother, but this really cuts to the quick: so many of the game's balance issues IMO come from the disconnect between a dev expectation that a boss will take, say, 10 minutes to kill when it's new and the reality that an appropriate buff cocktail for the right jobs will blow through it in 3 to 5.

So yeah, we're left with a situation where more defensive play will reward more diverse/underutilized setups with kills, but the mere fact that they take twice as long to do it means it'll never be fair to say it's easier since that's twice as long for something to go wrong, so conservative play is never really warranted.

I guess I'm not really sure what the solution is but boy howdy DNC is a lot of fun right now* and it'd be nice to see it get a little more action.

*it's really a testament to just how far the DNC star has fallen when the impact of making Evisceration the top unstacked Dagger WS basically passes without comment

the only way for SE to make the playerbase take on mobs the more defensiv way is, if you make them stun immune and need the defensiv buffs to even survive remotely, but we know how that works. People will bitch (VW, WoE, Legion) or just use PLD and RNG. Honestly there isnt much SE can do with the current battle systems and it doesnt matter, as long as you have a good group/shell that accepts almost any setup everything is fine. PUGs themself can imho do whatever they want, I dont care.

What SE is atm trying to do is bring almost every DD to the top and water everything else down, so everythign is dumb secure (thats how I feel atm about released content). Buffs to jobs or the system arent allways good and may destroy more things then help (SC and Fudo buff for example), there are more buffs that watered down difficulty on content tremendously (the whole ilvl skill + that made delve 1.0 piss easy basicly). Atm I am not sure where the Dev team is heading towards. It feels like we have reached a stop gear wise, the last update was meh with alluvion skirmish weapons (some are nice tough, but the random augment system kills it). As much as i hate to say this (and I really do), its time for some Alliance content and really hard content, would be nice to do some stuff with server people again instead of going constantly out only with the clique/group of shell. But allas I think we wont ever get "hard" content of the level of delve 1.0 on release or legion.

[Byrthnoth]

Dancer's major problem as a healer is AoE debuff spam on all content. Secondary problem is AoE damage spam. Contradance is insufficient to address either problem.

As a DD/Debuffer, Dancer's main problem is their debuffing totally destroying their DPS. Even assuming you stack with WSs, you still lose at least 1/15 of your DPS. (More like 1/10 with Presto.)

[Damane]

Dancer's major problem as a healer is AoE debuff spam on all content. Secondary problem is AoE damage spam. Contradance is insufficient to address either problem.

As a DD/Debuffer, Dancer's main problem is their debuffing totally destroying their DPS. Even assuming you stack with WSs, you still lose at least 1/15 of your DPS. (More like 1/10 with Presto.)

JA/magic delay was/is allways the brick wall that stops JA heavy jobs from doing what they "could" do. I wish SE could fix that shit, but i guess its just impossible.

[Malithar]

How strong would mythic Dnc be if there was 0 JA/WS delay? Just outta curiosity, I don't know any really good Dncs myself and haven't taken the time to spreadsheet it.

[FaeQueenCory]

JA/magic delay was/is allways the brick wall that stops JA heavy jobs from doing what they "could" do. I wish SE could fix that shit, but i guess its just impossible.

Didn't they say at one point that the reason for that was that ppl play on dial-up and they don't want to give people who are playing on this newfangled DSL an unfair advantage?
Of course that was back when dial-up was a thing and 2G broadband wasn't basically everywhere...
And given their "Einherjar will always be 6man cause of Server" excuse..... Maybe their servers are gimp(old).

[Byrthnoth]

How strong would mythic Dnc be if there was 0 JA/WS delay? Just outta curiosity, I don't know any really good Dncs myself and haven't taken the time to spreadsheet it.

Last time I looked it was something like a 100% DPS increase.

[Sechs]

Dancer's major problem as a healer is AoE debuff spam on all content. Secondary problem is AoE damage spam. Contradance is insufficient to address either problem.

As a DD/Debuffer, Dancer's main problem is their debuffing totally destroying their DPS. Even assuming you stack with WSs, you still lose at least 1/15 of your DPS. (More like 1/10 with Presto.)

You forgot to address the "As a Buffer" :D

[Sechs]

Last time I looked it was something like a 100% DPS increase.

I wonder if they could do something in between. Like giving a job traits that cuts in half the JA delay for some jobs? (PUP, DNC... can't think of another job that would need it as much as these two)
Using a JA would still be a loss, but it might become worth one, no?

[dasva]

Make haste effect ja loss!

[PSOfanatic]

They need to bring back Tetra Master but in a form where its implemented within FFXI. That'd be nice.

[IceSylph]

They need to bring back Tetra Master but in a form where its implemented within FFXI. That'd be nice.

This.

[Ophannus]

Never liked Tetra Master, I always thought Triple Triad was a simpler and sweeter game, very straight forward and easy to learn. Tetra was a bit more complex and was a longer game, true, but didn't have the same charm as TT.

[Draylo]

I hate Triple Triad, I remember losing my rare cards in that game and getting so annoyed.

[Prothescar]

well they're adding triple triad to XIV, maybe XI will get something too!

[Byrthnoth]

You forgot to address the "As a Buffer" :D

Dancer doesn't have any useful buffs. We provide 1.5% JA Haste that some people need and then another 8.5% JA Haste that no one but us gears for. To add insult to injury, any job in the game is capable of providing the necessary 1.5% JA Haste (and still having another 3.5% JA Haste that no one gears for).

[Byrthnoth]

Dev posts today:
* I think they're confirming Wyverns will give JA Haste (same as Hasso). They're making some comment about Strafe. They're confirming that the breath casting time reduction will also apply to healing breaths.
* They're saying that Shuriken and Dual Wield changes have been shelved until October. I think they're also making recyclable shurikens? So you can throw them but they aren't lost.
* They made some comment about Target Marker and how pets can't hit anything in current content. Supposedly they're going to address this by adding pet accuracy job points in November or later.