Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Sechs]

Do people really consider 12.95 a lot of money? Just wondering... That's like a lunch or casually buying random crap in a month period. Never understood why people get hung up on that.

I wouldn't call 13€ a month particularly expensive but I wouldn't call it cheap either, but that's just me and my monthly salary is just ~1200€

[dasva]

It's not just that it's old, there's barely any resources going into FFXI anymore. Hardly seems fair (or smart at this point) to keep charging the original subscription fee when the game is on skeleton crew status.

While there is that fact part the less resources being put into it is because even at full rate they are getting less due to the smaller player base. So it's not like they are getting the same amount of money while not doing as much.

[CoreyX]

I'm dirt poor and even I don't think $12.95 a month is a lot of money. Name any other month's-worth of entertainment that costs less. Going out for a single drink is gonna cost you more. A movie ticket is gonna cost more. Forget about it if you even want to get some popcorn, lol

[Prothescar]

what kind of drinks do you order that they cost $13 each

[Koyangi]

Buying more than 1 drink and tipping?

[arus2001]

While they may be doing the mini-updates monthly, I'd say they're still in a 3-4 month cycle for the "big stuff" overall. And in general, recycling old content or carrying rules over from existing stuff could be a gray area in the truly new aspect. That said, they're doing what they can with their skeleton crew, but I'm not gonna fanboy out and say they're doing better than other games with less. After all, we had people quitting because they had nothing to do a month or so back. Or so we were told.

That said, one sub may be cheap, but that adds up if you multi-box or even show interest in other P2P games. There's also the history of XIV leeching off funds and manpower for years. Drop the sub to $7.99 without mule fees and I'd actually consider coming back from time to time. Right now, I keep tabs mainly just to see if SE actually intends to treat the game more seriously again. They're close, but not quite for my standards. Lob in some ilvl magians for things to do when friends aren't around and I might be more interested. Otherwise, the whole logistics issues of party content still exists and is likely enough to scare some off from feeling like they couldn't get anything done, thus wasting money.

And some people hate skipping lunches.

[dasva]

I'm dirt poor and even I don't think $12.95 a month is a lot of money. Name any other month's-worth of entertainment that costs less. Going out for a single drink is gonna cost you more. A movie ticket is gonna cost more. Forget about it if you even want to get some popcorn, lol

Kinda depends on where you are/go. Regular price for new movies here is $10 for regular $13 for 3D matinee being a bit cheaper. Theater down the street from that one that plays stuff that is a few weeks old is like $5 a ticket but the seats are horrible. Drinks are really random though you could spend that on a bottle beer in some bars or spend $4-5 getting a real drink. Though I get your point.

[Prothescar]

Buying more than 1 drink and tipping?

Going out for a single drink is gonna cost you more.

uh huh. not that it matters at all, just funny. can get two or three good drinks for that price around here. bar down the street serves up white russians for $3.50 each. I mean I guess if all you can drink from is $150 bottles of Patron then yeah

[Kyte]

He might be counting tax, the cost of the trip there, maybe parking if there's a meter, and/or the tip. I could see that costing 13 dollars, as it isn't uncommon for a mixed drink to cost 8 dollars.


If you live in a city (and thus can walk) and know a good spot, though, there's no reason why even two drinks should cost you 13.

[Shenrien]

The place I frequent, I can't really think of anything that is above 6.50. Stiff drinks too, so it's quick to get a buzz and have a good time, after a tab is run up it's usually 15-20% tip for their service, and depending on how long I've stayed, longer I stay the more generous I am with the tip usually.

suggestion a topic name change Dev Tracker: Talk about your fav bar in between updates.

[Kyte]

I think that's about how much I pay too- but travel is going to cost me at least 4 dollars because I live in bumfuck nowhere.

[CoreyX]

Regardless $12.95 for a monthly supply of crack sounds like a bargain to me. Any other activity at that price will only last you a few hours, for one day.

[Bukadan]

/game with that comment

[dasva]

suggestion a topic name change Dev Tracker: Talk about your fav bar in between updates.

Home... mine or someone elses either way it's much cheaper. Especially if you live in an area that produces a bit of alcohol. Good wine is super cheap and plentiful here though the recent earthquake might raise prices a bit from the damage I've seen. But will still cost you stupid amounts at bars/restaurants. Like a single glass costing about as much as a bottle of the same exact wine at a store within a mile of there

[Priran]

I've seen draught beers get near $13 for a pint. Mixed drinks, obviously, can go to the moon.

[NynJa]

Regardless $12.95 for a monthly supply of crack sounds like a bargain to me. Any other activity at that price will only last you a few hours, for one day.

As said, its not the 12.95, its what the 12.95 got us 10 years ago compared to what 12.95 gets us now.

[Sechs]

That's true, but for me it's also how all these "small" amounts add up at the end of the month.
You have that for one account.
You have that for additional accounts.
You have that for another MMO.
You have Playstation Plus
You have XboxLive Gold
You have Guilwork Premium
You have XXX
You have YYY

Taken alone they're all not particularly expensive amounts but when you add everything up it starts becoming quite the money.
Of course if you ONLY pay for FFXI and for a SINGLE account it's a different story. It's very hard to find an offline game that lasts as long as a MMO does after all (but then again offline games are much cheaper too...)

[Seha]

As a student 5€ a month less would make a significant difference for me.

[Suteru]

I kind of regret blowing my 2k daily tally two weeks ago now...

[Byrthnoth]

JP post seems to indicate that SE thinks they've fixed Dancer main job with the Steps thing and Divine Seal/Veil JA. I think they are also saying that level 10 Stutter Step will give -30 MEva?

Given that the build-up time is so tremendous (~1:31 to level 10), I'm inclined to disagree with them. Once you finish maxing one daze, you can race another daze up to level 10 before the first one wears off and then get shit finishing moves by maintaining them. Joy~!



Dancer fails as a healer under the following conditions:
1) A lot of AoE damage spam with too many people in range - Critical flaw: Dancer always has to be in range and has to feed TP to continue healing. There are definitely monsters where Dancer fails as a healer when you consider damage created through their TP feed.
2) AoE status effects that hit the Dancer - Critical flaw: Dancer always has to be in range
3) Situations where monsters are able to do a lot of single target damage rapidly and wear out our timers - This is rare due to the timer change

Dancer fails as a buffer under the following conditions:
4) You don't need Haste Samba - The introduction of Haste II / Geo-Haste has made this more common, but we're close to going the other way and having Haste II/Geo-Haste + DNC be a viable option. We're not there yet, though. Also, GEO/RDM/COR backline suffers from the same healing support issues that Dancer suffers from.
5) You need to use Fan Dance to stay alive - This can be an issue, but it means you're dropping Haste Samba.

Dancer fails as a debuffer under the following conditions:
6) Fights are quick, so daze potency is low on average - Critical flaw: Most fights are quick, even in events like Ra'Skirmish. Heck, Tojil takes 3 minutes to kill?
7) Dancer's debuffs aren't useful - Feather Step is always useful, but Quickstep/Box Step/Stutter Step are not useful against the level 75 content that most people use Dancers for.
8) Dancer's debuff delays outweigh their benefit - This is similar to #2, but factors in Haste. In situations with high Haste, you take on considerable DD-burden to maintain an aggressive Step rotation.
As an example, it takes 75 seconds for dancer to provide an average of 11% Defense Down at the moment. This assumes two Prestos and realistically costs about 7~8 seconds of JA delay. So the Dancer sacrifices ~10% of their DPS for 11% Defense Down. It might net a gain in DPS for the group, or it might not depending what you're fighting and what your other buffs/debuffs are.

Dancer fails as a DD under the following conditions:
9) Piercing resistance - There's nothing to be done. This applies to (it feels like) half of Ra'Skirmish at the moment.
10) You're comparing it to SAM - Stahp.
11) High monster defense - No native attack boosts besides (indirectly) Box Step and (lulzily) Building Flourish.
12) You need Formless Strikes.


SE's proposed Step changes don't address any of 6~8. Their Divine Seal for Waltzes doesn't realistically address any of 1-3 (considering the 5 minute recast). None of the Job Points released thus far address any of the above issues.

It's fine for a job to have weaknesses, like an inability to function in a situation with a lot of AoE damage or being a debuffer that's preferable for the rare long fight. It's not fine to make such a job and then fail to provide content where it can be used. Like, just going through the hard mode BCs (which are the only long fights in the game atm):
* SL - Too much AoE damage, need formless strikes
* AAHM - Viable with blink-tanking DDs.
* AAMR - Havoc Spiral makes this a difficult fight for Dancer, but it's probably more possible than some other fights.
* AAEV - Too much AoE damage
* AATT - Too much AoE damage (nuke -> Amon Drive)
* AAGK - Viable with blink-tanking DDs.
* Superman - Between Great Wheel and Light Blade, not really viable. Sort of AAMR-tier
* Nexus - Not viable as a healer due to Terror-ga spam on the second form. Viable as a DD/Provoker for spectators.
* Ouryu - Too much AoE damage + Slowga
* Tenzen - Viable
* Head Wind - Not viable as a buffer due to needing Fan Dance, but could work as a support healer and debuffer.
* PiP - Too much AoE damage and physical damage resistance.
* Gessho - As viable as any other melee with shadows, but not as a healer when clones come out.