Dev Tracker: Discussion

[Sechs]

None of the Job Points released thus far address any of the above issues.

This is good in my view.
JPs should be something to empower a job, not to fix its native flaws.
If there are flaws they have to be fixed within the job, for everybody. Not through JPs or specific items.
(that's just my view on game design balance though).

Couldn't agree more with the rest of what you said though.
Pretty sad that SE thinks they "fixed" the job...

[Byrthnoth]

I agree. I just made the comment because SE seems to be implementing job adjustments via JPs lately.

[Sechs]

Yeah they made that comment for Pet Jobs recently and I found it preposterous.
They also had the tendency to think they could "fix" some innate jobs' flaws by adding job specific equipment.
Wether or not they succeeded with that (I feel a couple of times maybe they did) the point is that imho that's a wrong way to "fix" a flaw that's inside the game balance for a certain job.

[Byrthnoth]

Still waiting for my Ternary Flourish enhancing gear.

[FaeQueenCory]

The thing is, JPs wouldn't be a bad way to fix jobs....
If they weren't so mindnumbingly grindy.
There's no limit to how many you can have in a category (so unlike Merits, you won't have to sacrifice anything for your fix)...
But because it takes SO LONG to get 55 (which is the amount needed for 1 category max)...
And because Capacity Point parties work fundamentally differently than old school merit/exp parties... (Last I recalled any and every job was allowed for MP/Exp pts... CAP being the way it is... Where they keep forcing ppl to grind them by bullshit like the chain bonus duration and zone specific penalty reduction... The "old style experience point party" falls flat. Because they practically demand you fit a certain mold and that mold is: DDx3 WHM BRD COR
Look familiar? That's how endgame content is played... Smh)
It's unreasonable to expect this grind as a viable fix method.

ESPECIALLY for jobs that "aren't endgame worthy"...

Furthermore, all this bullshit of "people need to stop using abyssea for merits"... No.
You need to stop being a selfish prick.
Abyssea for merits is a good thing because it serves two purposes:
1) the exp is good so getting 30~45 Merits doesn't take long
2) you help those who are lower level (whether they be abyssea noob 30s or 75s) who need to be 99.
People need to remember that other people exist in this game and just because you do something, doesn't mean that it's good for the health of the game, ie: Increasing and retaining subscriptions.

[Ophannus]

parties... (Last I recalled any and every job was allowed for MP/Exp pts

Did you only start playing after Abyssea was released?

MP/EXP oldschool merit parties in ToAU bird parties pretty much only allowed these jobs: WAR/NIN(with Ridills), black belt MNKs, RDMs, Adaberk DRK/NINs with Ridills or Apocs, DRGs for piercing, CORs and BRD and maybe polearm SAMs.

Nobody brought PLD, NIN, BST, SMN, BLM, THF, RNG, SCH, DNC, BLU or WHM. People extremely selective about jobs, maybe even more so than job point parties. Now it's "3DD", back then it was WAR/MNK/DRG/DRK/SAM and for half of those, only if they were using the right weapons/gear. WHM wasn't used because they ran out of MP so RDM was preferred. At any rate, don't compare job point parties which are MUCH more flexibible to oldschool merit parties which were some of the snobbiest days of FFXI (Inviting a BRD who has his flag up) BRD:"Do you guys have 2 ridill WARs?" Me: "No we have a DRG and a SAM" BRD:"I only party with 2x Ridill WARs and another Ghorn BRD, sorry".

[Malithar]

Furthermore, all this bullshit of "people need to stop using abyssea for merits"... No.
You need to stop being a selfish prick.
Abyssea for merits is a good thing because it serves two purposes:
1) the exp is good so getting 30~45 Merits doesn't take long
2) you help those who are lower level (whether they be abyssea noob 30s or 75s) who need to be 99.
People need to remember that other people exist in this game and just because you do something, doesn't mean that it's good for the health of the game, ie: Increasing and retaining subscriptions.

Please spread that around, I need Dho and Woh to remain as empty as possible. Thanks <3.

[Ophannus]

New mystery box items. Since we can only use once per day, hopefully the increase the value of the items dispensed. Medicines given should he Vile Elixir+1's ninja tools should be a bag, etc. I wonder if equipment will be relevant or will just be random low level crap you can buy with sparks. Of course, I'm not expecting powerful weapons and armor but something to bother dumping in points for would be neat. Like small chcance at Ganesha Mala, Pulse Bodies, Dring, maybe new accessories with augments, throw Arise and maybe some Vocational Rings in there and I'll be happy.

Anyone know a good acc for Woh Gates? I was parsing like 75% acc(think my total acc was like 1150ish), and that was with madrigal, almost full acc gear, sushi and gungnir.


Also a byproduct or abyssea meritting lately(i say lately because people stopped after SoA came out but picked it back up when Phantom Gems and merit categories were increased) is that there is a trove of Dragon Meat on the auction house. Haven't you guys noticed that about a year ago, RCB stacks were touching 200k/stack and now they're like 40k? Hurts my profits as a 110 Culinarian but whatever, i mostly leveled it to make my own food/pet items. Also as an aside, can you sheep stop buying my overpriced RCB+1? RCB has the exact same STR, Att and duration as NQ RCB. Half of my ls buys it en masse and for some reason thinks it lasts longer than nq; it doesnt. You're throwing your money away, there's pretty much no reason to buy rcb+1 unless you want the extra agi or demon killer.

[Sechs]

Wonder what Attachments and Pandemonium Keys come from now. Special?

[Fwahm]

It takes 1108 accuracy to cap on everything in Woh Gates. You may want more than that though, as the worms can inflict accuracy down and DEX down.

[Damane]

The thing is, JPs wouldn't be a bad way to fix jobs....
If they weren't so mindnumbingly grindy.
There's no limit to how many you can have in a category (so unlike Merits, you won't have to sacrifice anything for your fix)...
But because it takes SO LONG to get 55 (which is the amount needed for 1 category max)...
And because Capacity Point parties work fundamentally differently than old school merit/exp parties... (Last I recalled any and every job was allowed for MP/Exp pts... CAP being the way it is... Where they keep forcing ppl to grind them by bullshit like the chain bonus duration and zone specific penalty reduction... The "old style experience point party" falls flat. Because they practically demand you fit a certain mold and that mold is: DDx3 WHM BRD COR
Look familiar? That's how endgame content is played... Smh)
It's unreasonable to expect this grind as a viable fix method.

ESPECIALLY for jobs that "aren't endgame worthy"...

Furthermore, all this bullshit of "people need to stop using abyssea for merits"... No.
You need to stop being a selfish prick.
Abyssea for merits is a good thing because it serves two purposes:
1) the exp is good so getting 30~45 Merits doesn't take long
2) you help those who are lower level (whether they be abyssea noob 30s or 75s) who need to be 99.
People need to remember that other people exist in this game and just because you do something, doesn't mean that it's good for the health of the game, ie: Increasing and retaining subscriptions.

abyssea for merits is absolutly horrible lol. you can cap merits in 30 min with a 6 man pt in doh or woh gates.
unless you started playing ffxi during abyssea only the merit pt setup were like this:
pre toua:
- 3mnk brd whm rdm king ranperre skellys
- war/nin or nin *4 and brd rdm
- 4blms brd rdm in sea chaining eles from aerns
after toau release:
- same as above -manaburn
after 2hander update:
- sam drk war in some occasions drg 1brd 1rdm (polearm sams sometimes)
or 3 2handers cor brd rdm (rarley a whm if they were good and you knew them)

now all you need is 3-4 non crappy DD (as in well geared and know what they are doing, even pup or bst is fine) & brd & cor or geo& healer (sch or whm or geo/whm or smn/whm or rdm)

[Ophannus]

Yeah dex down and acc down is annoying in woh gates and most whms are gonna be lazy about erasing 3 dds every few seconds unless they have Yagrush, maybe better off having all dds sub dnc or just wear enough acc to compensate(the mages arent bad flr not erasing its just that in a 3-4 hour party, erasing 3 people every few seconds gets tedious as fuck).

[Bukadan]

and thats the difference between a good player (whm in this case) and a bad player (whm in this case)

[NynJa]

Sayin someone a bad player cuz they dont have a Yagrush is pretty fkn lol

[Kyte]

Did you only start playing after Abyssea was released?

MP/EXP oldschool merit parties in ToAU bird parties pretty much only allowed these jobs: WAR/NIN(with Ridills), black belt MNKs, RDMs, Adaberk DRK/NINs with Ridills or Apocs, DRGs for piercing, CORs and BRD and maybe polearm SAMs.

Nobody brought PLD, NIN, BST, SMN, BLM, THF, RNG, SCH, DNC, BLU or WHM. People extremely selective about jobs, maybe even more so than job point parties. Now it's "3DD", back then it was WAR/MNK/DRG/DRK/SAM and for half of those, only if they were using the right weapons/gear. WHM wasn't used because they ran out of MP so RDM was preferred. At any rate, don't compare job point parties which are MUCH more flexibible to oldschool merit parties which were some of the snobbiest days of FFXI (Inviting a BRD who has his flag up) BRD:"Do you guys have 2 ridill WARs?" Me: "No we have a DRG and a SAM" BRD:"I only party with 2x Ridill WARs and another Ghorn BRD, sorry".

While the best, ~35k/hour parties were pretty exclusive and were basically SAM SAM SAM DNC COR BRD or bust, it was certainly possible to get a good (~20k/hour) party for most of the other jobs (SMN, BLM, SCH, and BST were the main exceptions, although BLM and maybe SCH could do their own manaburny things). WAR just had to use a cheap Rune Chopper to be competitive and for BLU and the aforementioned WAR you just had to make sure you got a RDM that wasn't too lazy to throw out refreshes.

[Bukadan]

nah what makes them a bad player is that they arent willing to erase those bad debuffs that actually have an impact on performance. its simple small nuances like that that when piled up create terrible party experiences. theres no excuse for things like that, lol. saying "melee should gear for that" is one thing, in the off chance the whm like, afk's or dies. but to say "its not worth it" is offensive to good players

[pancakesandsex]

nah what makes them a bad player is that they arent willing to erase those bad debuffs that actually have an impact on performance. its simple small nuances like that that when piled up create terrible party experiences. theres no excuse for things like that, lol. saying "melee should gear for that" is one thing, in the off chance the whm like, afk's or dies. but to say "its not worth it" is offensive to good players

In a situation where the (not very potent) debuffs get reapplied that often there's other options besides removal as well. The mobs in woh die faster than my erase timer x 4 and debuff faster than my strats can keep up when main healing on sch, but I can throw distract once per mob and mitigate it that way too.

I agree with the basic point you're trying to make, but it's helpful to remember that there's more than one way to handle things, and throwing on an extra acc ring is one of them.

[Damane]

its like people forget that a non yagrush whm can stand in range with misery and just cast esuna... its not that hard ¬.¬. even non whm jobs like geo rdm sch smn can erase the pt just fine, assumeing they have a proper fast cast set that lowers erases recast to 2-3 sec.

[JSHidaka]

Did you only start playing after Abyssea was released?

MP/EXP oldschool merit parties in ToAU bird parties pretty much only allowed these jobs: WAR/NIN(with Ridills), black belt MNKs, RDMs, Adaberk DRK/NINs with Ridills or Apocs, DRGs for piercing, CORs and BRD and maybe polearm SAMs.

Nobody brought PLD, NIN, BST, SMN, BLM, THF, RNG, SCH, DNC, BLU or WHM. People extremely selective about jobs, maybe even more so than job point parties. Now it's "3DD", back then it was WAR/MNK/DRG/DRK/SAM and for half of those, only if they were using the right weapons/gear. WHM wasn't used because they ran out of MP so RDM was preferred. At any rate, don't compare job point parties which are MUCH more flexibible to oldschool merit parties which were some of the snobbiest days of FFXI (Inviting a BRD who has his flag up) BRD:"Do you guys have 2 ridill WARs?" Me: "No we have a DRG and a SAM" BRD:"I only party with 2x Ridill WARs and another Ghorn BRD, sorry".

Well before I quit the first/only time I have, 4x Nin, brd/nin, rdm/whm was one of the best meritpo setups, @ Mamool Ja camp (alone) could get 35k-40k exp/hr, that was the first time I got(as bard pulling) chain 400sh..

I don't remember been "elitist" about asking what they had, mostly coz my Seacom was "LF Nin burn party only" lol..

[PSOfanatic]

So are there people out there that actually think the JP/CP thing is a good addition to the game? Really?????????? I think its the dumbest idea ever and they should of just made a 3rd category of merit points. Way to make shit more complicated, grindy, and boring as ever, SE. Bravo.