Dev Tracker: Discussion

[FaeQueenCory]

Of course even though they summon all the new trusts they make sure to put the mithra girl on the other player so we can't see if/what geo buff it's giving. I do love how they kept zooming in on Cid and laughing

Anyone translate what the atomos did.

Also was Koru a backline rdm that not only gives rdm specific buffs but stays out of range while curing and buffing!?!

I know right???

Though I'm betting that Koru-Moru being far away was just a fluke of him being the last summoned... I've had that happen, especially with Mage Trusts, where they get "stuck" on a "hill" and then suddenly start acting like how they're supposed to...

As for Atomos... I hope it's a 2hr impact.... Buuut... I'm fairly confident that it's not... I wouldn't be surprised if it was a 2hr 1/2 impact...
(I also wouldn't be surprised if'n the reason why Atomos was pushed back was because they wanted to perfect His power range... And to make his update coincide with Garuda's Hastega variable adjustment... Diabolos' Noctoshield variable adjustment... Titan's Earthen Ward variable adjustment.... And Cait Sith's +75 BPs. This update had job adjustments for some jobs, so I'd imagine they'd like to group all the SMN stuff together.)

Also: $5 says that the same epilogue quest-missions for WotG also work in Lilisette's Trust.

[Damane]

SMN getting half finished pieces of shit? Shocking.

you bitching about smn?! shocking.

isnt the whole smn favour and new bloodpacts adjustments sheduled for this year?

[Hitou]

In theory. I wouldn't count on it though.

[Spira]

Atomos was originally scheduled for sept last i heard..
i hope its not a 1hr.. but rather just a stupidly long recast timer.. cos seriously.. unless it lands well and actually drops stats severely.. who uses astral flow for shit like this? odin is already a stretch... alexander is the only one worth using.

and they need to fix the BP system so that SMN don't just sit around doing nothing.. a SMN equivalent of the BLM/SCH magic dmg+ trend would be nice.. (ie, giving us an option to use weaker lower level BPs that cost less MP, in exchange for a much lower BP recast timer)

[Kyte]

and they need to fix the BP system so that SMN don't just sit around doing nothing.. a SMN equivalent of the BLM/SCH magic dmg+ trend would be nice.. (ie, giving us an option to use weaker lower level BPs that cost less MP, in exchange for a much lower BP recast timer)

Technically, nuking with said +mdmg is an option.

[Darkmagi]

A good SMN should either be supporting or nuking in between BP timers, you have access to very good nuking gear and /sch makes skill fine.

[Bukadan]

dark magi's point should be slammed into certain smn's heads i know, espcially the ones ive seen that wont go any sub but rdm. (granted distract/frazzle/ect are good, but you know damn well that the smn's who sub rdm dont use them) i mean convert is useless when you can carry around hilixirs,viles, ect.

[dasva]

dark magi's point should be slammed into certain smn's heads i know, espcially the ones ive seen that wont go any sub but rdm. (granted distract/frazzle/ect are good, but you know damn well that the smn's who sub rdm dont use them) i mean convert is useless when you can carry around hilixirs,viles, ect.

Also good luck landing a -meva spell on a mob that you'd actually need that with with only subjob skill

[Bukadan]

if i can stun delve I as brd/blm smns can do SOMETHING

[dasva]

Delve 1 content that was designed to be done without ilvl gear with a spell that is extremely accurate sure but newer higher stuff is more resistant.

And you missed the part of if the mob has enough meva that you want someone lowering it (ie people with full skill are having problems) then someone with half skills isn't going to land said debuff. And if people are having trouble with acc then macc will be an issue too. Hence if you want to help offensively you /sch

[Spira]

Technically, nuking with said +mdmg is an option.

while true, i mean for them to do something so that SMNs can play in the essence of the main job as opposed to relying on the subjob to get stuff done. i suppose it harks back to the old 'smn is a healer' debate which basically required you to play SMN primarily using the tools of another job. it can be done to some extent, but isn't in its true essence. i simply want to do more through my summons.

[Bukadan]

yea but if youll be more effective in certain aspects then not using capabilities of a sub job is ignorant. for example, during say the period between using earthen armors, you could either assist in cures or hastes(even flurry), or nuke for damage. if that damage adds up over time to be more significant than anything you'd have done otherwise, then using summons during that period is literally inefficient. thats like saying "i simply want to use two swords" as a warrior sub thf.

you should be aiming to be the best you can be. the essence of a job isnt even relevant when youre looking to contribute as much as you can. why would someone include someone who is going to contribute far less than someone who will not only contribute the same as the other, but a completely seperate role in addition to it. there are ways that one could test the best way to go about certain events and with which sub to benefit the pt most. an example of this would be rdm/blm main healer against say tojil, ive stunned and healed before and it worked out tremendously, as well as brd/blm stunning when we needed to include a leech for a win, and consider cor/whm and its implications that im sure you take advantage/have taken advantage of at some point. personal opinions on the matter of play are not to get in the way of being the best you can be for your group unless youre will to say (straight out or by saying "this job wasnt designed to do that, no thanks") that you arent wlling to do anything but what you want to do. i mean smn/blm could stun delve too, so if you were to include that in your list of things you could contribute, youd definately find more invites as smn in general. thats just another example. though.

[Sechs]

why would someone include someone who is going to contribute far less than someone who will not only contribute the same as the other

A good reason could be that content is so easy that you're going to complete it regardless. Yes you will take 7 minutes more, big deal.
In the process you're going to make a friend happier becuase he'll be able to play the job in a way that entertains him more, even if it's slightly less efficient.
Two birds with one stone.

Of course it's a different story when granting that friend such freedom creates the threshold between succeeding or failing an event, but I feel like in the large majority of situations, at least with the current state of the game, that's clearly not the case.
I'm all for "efficiency at all costs" when it does matter. But when there hardly is a difference might as well do the things you want to do, even if they're stupid, meaningless and unefficient.



Either way, I doubt this is the point Spira was making.
If I got him right his point was: "I would like SMN job to be this way XXXXX because I feel that's closer to the original concept of the game. I don't like relying on SJ as one of the main core elements of my game, and if SMN becomes that way I'd rather play another job instead"
He wasn't trying to justify lazy SMNs or trying to say he likes to play that way. It was of a way to criticize the way SE is currently handling the in-game implementation of the SMN job.

[Ophannus]

Atomos could be a better Astral Flow than perfect defense because unlike an astral flow which only boosts 6 ppl, a debuff AF affects everyone hitting the mob. If it reduces the mob's stats by more than Impact, say 50% and gives those stats to the party, could be looking at like +100 STR/VIT/DEX/AGI/MND/INT on the party and -100 stats on the mob, combined with Intervene or RUN's SP2 and the mob could be severely weakened for a good 30-45 seconds for zergs.

Might be even better and floor the mob's stats to 1 for 30 seconds and give you all of their stats. +200 STR/DEX anyone?

[Spira]

Yup.. Sechs gets me. I won't argue against efficiency, but I'm one of those people that play a job because I like the way it looks and feels, in spite of it's usefulness (but hopefully not). Granted it's not optimal in a party setting, I don't actually even play at all anymore and mostly log in and do solo stuff.. so productivity in a party is not really a consideration.

It's not that I don't endorse alternate playstyles either.. If someone likes to DD whm and can do it fine I say power to them.. SMN just feels like it's in a really bad place at the moment. My only other jobs are SCH and RUN and they feel much better in the current state of things

[dasva]

Atomos could be a better Astral Flow than perfect defense because unlike an astral flow which only boosts 6 ppl, a debuff AF affects everyone hitting the mob. If it reduces the mob's stats by more than Impact, say 50% and gives those stats to the party, could be looking at like +100 STR/VIT/DEX/AGI/MND/INT on the party and -100 stats on the mob, combined with Intervene or RUN's SP2 and the mob could be severely weakened for a good 30-45 seconds for zergs.

Even better what if it adds up with impact... iirc the original brd sp2 had a -stat or -int thing on it that was a percentage and stacked with impact. Imagine taking those high levels mobs with like 300 base stats and reducing that to under 100....

Using that seems kinda overkill with Odyllic Subterfuge and intervene already flooring the enemies acc/macc and att... but if we are doing that let's throw in Bolster geo/indi-fade from an idris to reduce it's mab to 0 as well so even if it somehow still lands a spell despite floored macc it will still do 0 dmg bwhahhahhahha

[Kyte]

Summoners have used normal black magic and white magic in other games though, so it's highly arbitrary to say "hey, I don't like the idea of using subjob spells because it doesn't fit my personal vision."

[NynJa]

Summoners have used normal black magic and white magic in other games though, so it's highly arbitrary to say "hey, I don't like the idea of using subjob spells because it doesn't fit my personal vision."

Rydia had black magic (and white magic as a child). The SMN's in FF9 have some white magic it seems, same with Yuna in 10.

[dasva]

Rydia had black magic (and white magic as a child). The SMN's in FF9 have some white magic it seems, same with Yuna in 10.

Eiko from ix is basically a whm/smn while Garnet is a smn/whm and I believe your main healer early on. Also believe Yuna is whm and smn

[The Assman]

In Campaign there are 2 BLM/SMN and a WHM/SMN, if that matters.